Government to take control of some Catholic schools

[Skrynesaver]

The "State" does pay for anything. The taxpayers do, and many are Christians. If they want some of their taxes to pay for religious education, that is democracy.

The taxpayers provide the money the state uses, what you describe is not democracy but mob rule

[johnfás]

The taxpayers provide the money the state uses, what you describe is not democracy but mob rule

Choice is mob rule, classic. White Horse didn't suggest that only one form of school should be provided - merely that choice should be provided for those people who contribute financially to our society and have a preference for a particular ethos in which to educate their children. It seems what alot of people shouting loudly want is simply to replace one form of totalitarianism with another. Most rational people consider this pretty retrograde and this is recognised in most developed countries (including the poster boys of secularism such as France) who do indeed provide state funding for religious schools. The only place that doesn't is the USA, who have ended up with an unregulated and dysfunctional parallel system of religious schools which offer a poor curriculum. I'd rather we subsidised a reasonable choice for parents and funded schools subject to their teaching a national curriculum - which is what we already do but are accelerating changes owing to the accelerated demographic changes taking place in our society.

[Decadance]

I think you will find that the schools in the state are run by Boards of Management - not the Government or the state. Therefore the removal by the boards of the local priest would adequately deal with this issue.

[Skrynesaver]

Rubbish.

Taxpayers, the vast majority of whom are religious, pay for compulsory education in national schools, not the government.

[Skrynesaver is deluded into thinking that the govt is entirely independent of the taxpayer]

In a democracy it is normal to respect the wishes of the vast majority who desire a denominational element in their childrens compulsory state education.

Skrynesaver clearly admires the Marxist,Soviet system of compulsory state indoctrination where parents have no say whatever in what beliefs their children are taught

Did you read what I said or were you foaming at the mouth too heavily to see the entire post?

What ever people wish to teach people of their world-view in their own time is fine, but you have no right to demand I pay my tax to fund the religious education of my child. If you want to tell them fairy stories that is entirely your business but using the education system to reinforce your indoctrination is mob rule.

[FrankSpeaks]

I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. I know my own kids are in the same school that both myself and their grandfather attended. A Catholic school where preparation for the various church sacraments is mainly done by teachers. In my oldest lads class this year almost 20% of the class were opting out of first communion I think in our school this would be quite unusual but it didn't seem to cause any problems. It was dealt with very matter-of-factly by the staff and the kids seemed to treat it as a perfectly logical and acceptable choice. Point being a well run catholic school does not need to be a place where kids from other or no denomination need be uncomfortable.


The state already has a big say in the administration of schools from the makeup of the boards and the training of parent members of school boards to the curriculum that must be taught in the schools. In many ways I believe from what the church has been saying that in some areas they would be quite happy to relinquish responsibility for the schools where control has been de-facto removed from them because of the large numbers of non-catholic children attending the schools. As the state is already paying the salaries of the teachers and staff as well as capitation to these schools I cannot see it costing much extra.

I think that the parents of children in a school that has been selected should have the final say in whether a school comes under state control. I would include all parents of children who have been registered with the school for subsequent academic years.

The facts are that the bishops has control of the school, he decides who to hire and fire, yet, we the taxpayer are paying the piper but we cannot call the tune. If parents want to send kids to church run schools then they should pay for them, secular schools run by the state should be free.

[deiseguy]

The state has no input into who sits on the board except in schools run by VECs.

By and large, schools are owned and run by non-state entities, (usually some church or other), which are completely unaccountable, and in many cases, secretive. For all its flaws, (and there are many), at least the workings of the state are subject to some level of public scrutiny. Effectively the state has outsourced the education of young people to a the private sector.

Yes it does the state proscribes the makeup of school boards. The boards are made-up of patrons nominees(I can't see the difference between a political appointment and a church one the chances of ending up with a catholic fundamentalist demented oul one and some FF appointed hack are about the same) two parents appointed by the parents council, the principal and another member of staff plus two extra members agreed by the above groups. In the case of my kids school this means that there are in fact 4 parents including the boards chair on an 8 person board. If parents are strong enough they can have a very strong say in how their school is run.

I don't know how to provide links just check the citizens information website or schooldays.ie .

[White Horse]

we the taxpayer are paying the piper but we cannot call the tune.

Does the State not set the syllabus? Does the State not inspect the schools? That is quite a lot of control.

If parents want to send kids to church run schools then they should pay for them.

I see that cost deducted from my pay packet every month.

[sondagefaux]

Like all secularists you are deluded.

[1]The OP has provided no evidence at all to back up the story

[2] Ireland is nominally 85% Christian. Non Christians = perhaps 5%.
Secularists atheists liberals and other similiar deluded types=at most
2%.
[3] Democracy is important and Iireland being democratic it is essential & important that denominational non secular education be provided to the vast majority of its citizens who want it.

What 'vast majority'?

IN THE wake of the Murphy report a majority of people believe that the Catholic Church should give up its control of the primary school system, according to the latest Irish Times /Ipsos, MRBI poll.

When asked about the issue, 61 per cent of people said the church should give up control of the school system, 28 per cent said it should maintain its position and 11 per cent had no opinion on the matter.

Catholic Church 'should give up control of primary schools' - The Irish Times - Mon, Jan 25, 2010

[Cruimh]

I think he means the vast majority of those who want it rather than the vast majority of the populus.

[johnfás]

What 'vast majority'?



Catholic Church 'should give up control of primary schools' - The Irish Times - Mon, Jan 25, 2010

The majority said that they should give up its current role (of dominance) in the sector - while a sizeable number said that it should continue in its current position (a position I disagree with). The question posed did not concern whether or not one considered that there should be a role for the Catholic Church (or other churches) at all in providing schools. I support a diminishment of the Catholic Church's role in education but I equally support diversity in the education system including the provision of Catholic and other schools.

The cited reported doesn't tell us anything except that a sizeable majority of the population believe that there should be less Catholic schools. But sure doesn't the Catholic Church believe that as well? Certainly I think they have said something along those lines.