If you have to ask why your figures are utter rubbish and meaningless in the context of this thread you are (very, very far) beyond my help.Originally Posted by SPN
The education cuts I've been linking to all evening above.
This is now getting ridiculous SPiN. Surely even you must admit there have been education cuts in light of all the evidence I have presented?
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They did not HAVE to go in with anybody..they alone decided that power was more important than policies
I've been asking you to show us your figures all evening without success.
Let me get this straight, are you doubting Sean Flynn's figures and effectively accusing him of lying when he says "Overall spending on education is to be reduced by €603 million next year (2010) as part of Government efforts to stabilise the exchequer." Link.
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What's with the lying?
I posted my figures for all to see hours ago, and I stated clearly where I got them.
I have not accused this Sean Flynn person of lying, I have asked you to back up his assertion with reference to the actual figures published on the DoF website.
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"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain
“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
You can't implement policies unless you are in Government.
The electorate clearly mandated that the Government have Fianna Fail as one element. From then on it was a choice as to whether the partner was Labour or the Greens.
The membership of the Green Party ratified the PfG (and the PfG 2), and rightly so.
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"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain
“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
You misunderstand the point I was making.
Try setting out the year by year figures for each Department separately, as I have done, and then we'll be able to compare apples with apples.
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"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain
“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
I find everything that you post here hard to believe. You are the Comical Ali of the Green Smegma Party - although hopefully your denouement won't be quite as final.
Presented by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Achieving nothing. (William Shakespeare on Tonight with VB).
So Sean Flynn of the Irish Times is telling the truth then? He is correct when he says that "Overall spending on education is to be reduced by €603 million next year (2010) as part of Government efforts to stabilise the exchequer." Link.
Glad we got that cleared up!
The education cuts are outlined clearly in the "Summary of Budget Measures 2010". Scroll down about a 1/3 down the page and you'll see them. The education cuts are outlined after the section outlining the cuts to Social Welfare, and Health and Children (these other cuts deserve a thread of their own ... maybe next week).
The following bodies also took a cut in last Decembers Budget;
* National Council for Curriculum and Assessment reduced by €0.93m;
* National Council for Special Education reduced by €2.3m;
* Higher Education Authority reduced by €0.562m;
* Dublin Dental Hospital reduced by €0.410m;
* Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies reduced by €0.546m;
* Royal Irish Academy of Music reduced by €0.303m;
* National Qualifications Framework (NQAI, FETAC, HETAC) current allocation reduced by €2.1m;
These are all outlined in the "Summary of Budget Measures" linked above, and are also available on a variety of other websites (including some of the websites of the bodies themselves). I will be happy to provide other links if requested.
And then there are the other education cuts I've provided evidence of in the 1st and 2nd post of this thread. I wont bother repeating them again here ... please see post 1 and 2 in this thread for details.
That is evidence enough of education cuts in 2010. And evidence enough that the Green Party are talking utter sh1t3 when they say education will be protected.
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Oceanfrog,
My support grant in third level education has been cut/slashed quite a lot as i am not the only one. Many student with various disabilities here has been receiving their support grants reduced in the form of cuts which was implemented by HEA (Higher Education Authority).
In some cases, by 50%, in other cases by 25%, no students with various disabilities was immune from all these cuts since two years ago.
These cuts have been implemented & consistent in the past two years in a row. No wonder many students with disabilities are affected in many ways and very disillusioned with the FF/GP. GP is a total joke as they do not represent us at all in any terms.
I have a question for them, why did NOT they oppose the cuts implemented two years ago. Why oppose it now? It's a total hypocrisy by the GP as i hope they will go into extinction just like the PD's.
In my view and many students with disabilities, it is far tooooo late too little to be done by GP now.
Last edited by Disabled student; 31st July 2010 at 07:56 PM.
I am no authority on anything that has been posted in this thread so far. But I thought I would post this personal anecdote I have experienced in the last couple of days.
Clincial psychologists are in desperate need in Ireland. Mental health services have been clearly identified as an area that needs drastic improvement in Ireland. Anyway, the training to become a clincial psychologist takes 3 years. It is extremely competitive to get onto a course. If 1000 people apply to an institution (UCD, Trinity, UL, UCG) 10 will get offered a place. The programme is basically 6 cycles of 6 weeks of classes and 4 months of work at the coalface working in hospitals and other institutions in Ireland. Those who apply are not "students" really. They will never be any younger than 25, will have a masters and will have a number of years experience working as an assistant psychologists, a psychology researchers etc. Most applicants apply a number of times before successful application. Many, of course never get onto a course. If you are successful the deal is this:
You are paid about 35000 a year for the 3 years. A decent salary for sure. But considering the age and qualifications of candidates and the competitiveness for places it is not a massive amount of money (but a fair salary). The HSE pays for 60% of your university fees (which can be between 10-14,000 per year), you pay the rest from savings or your salary. In return for the HSE paying 60% of your salary, you commit to working with them for another 3 years after your training and it has to be in the very same health board (mid-west etc). This is a very similar to the system in the UK except they get paid a bit less, but have fees fully paid for and dont have the same restrictive work practices after training.
This years intake will be starting in 3-5 weeks (depending on the university). The candidates have just been notified that they will have to pay full fees, upfront. So with 3 weeks notice they are being told that they dont have to pay 5000-6000 fees for the year ahead but 12-14000. They would earn 60% of this back pro rata as they work their 3 years with the healthboard after training.
Considering many who apply for such a position have young families and would be coming back from working abroad to take these positions its a massive thing to be told 3 weeks before you start that you will be doing so with 42000 worth of depth hanging around your nexk for 3 years. With giving people just 3 weeks notice it seems a desperate and deceitful ploy by the HSE to save some money at the last minute or people are only realising on a week to week basis just how ********************ed some of our budgetary problems are.
Technically it is not a cut. They will pay the money (just 4-6 years later). But the timing and method in which it has been done is very stealthy and a direct attempt to quickly save alot of money - there would potentially be 40-50 people starting at 4 Universities in Ireland in 3-5 weeks time. 50 times 60% of 14000 is over 400,000 euro.
The timing rather than the nature of the new deal is the big issue here.
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