Forcing students to learn Irish has failed, says Hayes

[Culann]

And it's the native tongue of about 10,000 prople alive today.

Give me a link for that and I'll admit I don't have a clue what I am talking about if not 'post it or drop it'.

[Culann]

the fact that our education system is unable to teach a language over a period of 14 years says more about the teachers than the language.

The teachers and the ridiculous system. The system needs to be changed too.

[Culann]

Would you like to post some evidence of this?

If I provide evidence will you admit to everyone that you don't know what you are talking about?

[Culann]

Also, what exactly is meant by 'the overwhelming people of Ireland would like to see Irish been spoken by the overwhelming majority of the people of Ireland on a daily basis'? I don't doubt that there is a certain sentimental attachment to the Irish language and that many people would, in an abstract sense 'like' to see Irish spoken on a day to day basis, just as many people would in an abstract sense 'like a United Ireland'. But if you get down to the nitty gritty as to what would be needed to be done and sacrified to attain the 'desired' goal, people become a lot less enthusiastic. .

A big majority.

If the' overwhelming majority' of Irish people want to revive the language, they're not gooing out of their way to take practical steps towards that end.

No there not. That is clear. Just like ur politicians. In the letter above Brian Hayes talks of our 'beautiful language'. Its abciously not beautiful enough to him to learn it.

[charley]

Statistics on the Gaeltacht and the Irish Language | Gaeltacht Travel in Ireland
http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Dialog/Saveshow.asp
Irish Examiner - 2007/10/05: One million (occasional) Irish speakers

[deirdrem]

Irish times 15 April - Forcing students to learn Irish has failed, says Hayes
The Irish Times - Letters

Hi Brian.
Nice to see you here sharing a space with us plebs.
So you want to get rid of compulsory Irish?
Just like your party got rid of the Coláistí ullmhúcháin in the 1950s, and Irish as an entry requirement for the Civil Service in the 1970s.
FG also laid out the boundaries of the Gaeltacht in the 1950s, and included huge areas of Mayo where Irish was effectively dead to provide Lindsay's supporters who had no Irish with grants officially provided to promote the Irish language... need I say more about FG's commitment to the language?
Well we know how that affected the Irish language - like a hole in the heart it affected it.
Yeah, sure, it's only after the junior certificate - for now.
We all know how this hatred of Irish somehow extends to take in more than was originally planned.
Fitzgerald's removal of Irish in the civil service was "meant to" be acompanied by special dedicated units to attend the Irish speaking public - funny how they never came into existence isn't it?
How about delivering them before removing any more supports.

But let's look at your suggestion: remove compulsory Irish after the junior cert.
Well, assuming it was to be part of a package, and assuming you and your party are being honest here (an assumption I'm not willing to make) and would deliver the package (another assumption I won't make), just maybe.
Dev óg in his "ráiteas ar an nGaeilge" in 2006 promised Irish-language education on demand for anyone who wanted it (well, who wanted it for their children, I assume). Yet his Government refused to allow any new Gaelscoil this school year, 2009-2010. How's that for commitment. And they're not going to allow any next year (2010-2011) meither. Isn't that just great?
While I appreciate that this is FF and the glasraí I'm talking about in this specific instance, FG hasn't proved any better in the past, as I have already mentioned above.

Nonetheless, if a law was put through the Dáil and the seanad, saying that Irish-language education was a right, up to and including 3rd level, and would be provided in Irish-language establishments at all levels (not a little bit here and a little bit there, as in a course in Letterkenny RTC, another in Tralee RTC, and one or two more in NUIG, etc), by setting up a dedicated RTC (say in Gaoth Dobhair) and a dedicated university (say in An Cheathrú Rua) and a dedicated teacher-training college (say in Baile an Fheirtéirigh or Baile Bhuirne). Well, I'd be willing to accept, if that happened and was written into law - funding included, that, after the junior cert, Irish could be made optional in non-Irish language schools (i.e. not Gaelscoileanna, not Gaeltacht schools).
But of course, that is not going to happen, because we all know what Brian's agenda is: it came up a few years back already, and is now being given a trial run in this thread for the next election manifesto.

[deirdrem]

There are five school kids in my house this evening ranging from 11 to 18. Out of curiosity regarding this topic I asked them if they were allowed to drop one subject of all the ones they are studying which would they chose. Four out of five said Irish.

Another anecdote.
A couple of years ago, a work colleague of mine was bad-mouthing Irish in the canteen, in a loud voice.
Her comments upset me, so finally I spoke up and said "I speak Irish to my children". She shut up.

Some months later, I walked into the canteen and there she was speaking about her daughter "... and she absolutely detests Irish ... ". I said nothing, but thought that her daughter had probably not got it off a tree.

How many here who are against Irish can say they genuinely didn't receive that attitude from their parents? How many can say that their only reason for their opposition is totally their own? In other words, that they started out with a neutral attitude, and worked out their position, as is said in mathematics "from first principles"?
I'd wager that more than a few are in fact parroting an attitude that they got at home before they ever set foot in a classroom

[olamp]

Of course we should get rid of compulsory Irish in our schools - the majority of our students know that it a complete waste of study time - there is enough pressure on them to compete in this cut throat world --let the time be spent on learning languages which are relevant to todays needs -we have hundreds of job vacancies which cannot be filled in this country because we are useless at foreign languages -- get real please!

[charley]

Acadamh na hOllscolaíochta Gaeilge, NUI Galway

and there plenty of space to make it bigger

[Interista]

How many here who are against Irish can say they genuinely didn't receive that attitude from their parents? How many can say that their only reason for their opposition is totally their own?

That's a pointless question. All of our attitudes are influenced by environment and experience to some indeterminable extent.