Our Gaelic heritage is a huge part of who we are. That should never be ignored but I think many northern Protestants feel it is exclusive rather than inclusive. I'm not suggesting we somehow drop it and re-Anglicize but we need to review where nationalism is going.Originally Posted by 18 Brumaire
Thanks to the heavy handed way Irish was taught and Gaelic games were promoted many irish people hate them. Kids ridiculed and told off for playing soccer, what the fuk is that about?
But that's the whole point about nationalism, that is its essence; exclusivity. You cannot have a nationalsm that's inclusive.
So what do you want? An exclusive Gaelic state, Brehon Law restored? People that don't want to speak Irish are flogged and those that play soccer ridiculed?
There's also in-culture exclusivity. A lot of younger people hate Irish music, language and to a lesser extent Gaelic games because they are associated with the older generation and establishment. That's another reason why our culture has been so easily "diluted" over the past twenty years.
Well, yes, although I wouldn't put it quite like that. I wouldn't favour those measures. Simply because the manner in which an ideal has been pursued is wrong doesn't mean the ideal itself is wrong.
Thats the fault of people like you because you buy into the demonisation of Gaelic culture. And of course its associated with "republicanism" and this nonsense of a united Ireland.
But you just dont get the illogicality of your position. And I am not picking on you. 99% of the people who post on this site on topics such as this are the same.
In order to have a nationalism you must have a nation. To have a nation you must have a group of people bound together by a common culture. Now what is that common culture?
I grew to hate Gaelic games because of the way they were forcefully implemented at school. I hated the rigidity in the traditionalists in Irish music. Luckily I've learned to look past the cultural NAZIs and have found my way back to both. I always liked the language, but I was fortunate enough to be in one of the first classes that it wasn't bet into.
It's impossible to keep culture stagnant, it is always evolving and absorbing. Right now we're at the stage past absorbing and just completely taking on the globalised culture, of mainly American influence.
Times have moved on from when Gaelic society was at its peak. I think it's naive to think we can return to that. There is plenty we could incorporate into modern society but I'm not sure how "pure" you want it.
The common culture of the majority of people on this island is Gaelic. But that is very vague. Are we including Gaelic political system and laws into that? Gaelic culture is intimately connected to a rural, agricultural way of life that is fast disappearing, if not completely gone from parts, does society need to go back to that way of living too? Rambling houses where music is played, etc?
1. The currently-living English people didn't bring death and destruction to this country for hundreds of years. They simply weren't alive at the time.
2. Plenty of English people suffered over the centuries under the rule/control of the elites of the time. Most of the English of the 18th/19th centuries lived in grinding poverty, with their lives centred on basic survival. The people living in Manchester slums in the 19th century, for example, were not having a party at our expense.
You are confusing having a nation whose culture is Gaelic with returning to a medieval Gaelic society. Gaelic culture has changed, evolved and absorbed since the middle ages, indeed in the last hundred years and continues to change, evolve and absorb. Here's one example nós*|iris ghaeilge
The common culture of the majority of people on this island is not Gaelic. It may have been the culture of their ancestors but it is not theirs now.
Ironically, I think we still operate a medieval Gaelic political system. Power is everything. Power is gained by creating a support base that is dependant on doling out the resources that are controlled as a result of gaining power. The system is self sustaining in that power cannot be gained without patronage and vice versa.
While I do not see why "rambling houses" should be exclusively rural, they were just a means of cultural expression, which of course were also a means of expression for rural anglophone culture.
What do you believe it is? How would you like to see it realised?
It is a mixture of the kind of come all ya paddywhackery culture of 19th c. Ireland and the the modern Anglo-American globalised culture you menioned. It is the culture of the English colony in Ireland. It is essentially a British culture. It has some Gaelic influences, but really very slight.
You mean how would I like to see an Ireland with a Gaelic culture realised? I think the first step is if people realised and faced up to what I have said above and stopped deluding themselves. Another would be if they put as much energy into achieving this as they do into hankering after a united Ireland.
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