An interesting article on how Irish schools came under control of religion

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I hope I can shed some light on the queries about pre-1971 and about overall religious ethos in schools. I was in primary school in the second half of the 1960s and early 1970s, and we had Christian Doctrine daily (the first few years in a convent-run national school, later in a Christian Brothers School).
There was preparation for First Communion and Confirmation, and there were prayers at various stages of the day, I don't recall when exactly.
In secondary school, we had Christian Doctrine for an hour four times a week. We would have prayers in the morning and some teachers would begin classes with prayers, not all of them did. For example, we would begin French class with the Hail Mary in French.
In the more senior years in secondary, we had school retreats with the Redemptorists. We had a different Christian Doctrine teacher each year of secondary, four Christian Brothers and one layman.
I have to say, though, that it didn't turn us into either fanatical Catholics or fanatical anti-Catholics. Three of my classmates, in the first three years of secondary, were Church of Ireland boys - at that time, there were no other religions in the school.
They would leave during Christian Doctrine and go to another class, and then once a week they would go to the local vocational school where the local Church of Ireland minister would teach Church of Ireland teenagers from the three local post-primary schools (the three boys all switched to the vocational school after the Inter Cert).
The Brothers differed among themselves - one man was fiercely republican and anti-Protestant, a second was also seen by Protestant boys as rather sectarian, but a third was very broad-minded and stressed we were all Christians.
Indeed, he went further and, long before Ireland started to become multi-faith, he made sure we learnt about Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism.
Among the lay staff, I recall one history teacher being very keen to ensure that the Protestant boys did not feel left out, and would sometimes ask them on Monday what their rector had preached about the previous day.
Another lay history teacher asked us to compile a list of ten different Protestant denominations, to get away from the mindset of "Catholic and Protestant".
I don't recall the Brothers as being particularly repressive on sexual matters either, though one Brother gave us a talking to when it emerged that several local schoolgirls had become pregnant (I don't believe any of us were guilty!).
The Brother who was broad-minded to other religions was also quite understanding of the boys' emerging hormones and struck me as open on such matters also.
Having said that, I do recall some boys who were clearly gay, and life was not easy for them, but it was more other boys than teachers who caused problems.
Over 30 years later, I am seeing both sides as my wife is Protestant, and my stepson, who is being brought up Protestant, attends a Catholic primary school as it is the nearest school.
Religion isn't a problem, he learns prayers at school and most of them are the same, Catholic or Protestant.
I don't get the impression that Catholicism is rammed down throats of children now and have not heard of any efforts to interfere in teachers' private lives, but then again, it may vary from one part of the country to another.
None of what I've said is an argument against more diverse types of school management, I'm simply recalling personal experiences.

The people I have spoken to confirm everything in this poet. It completely contradicts Garett's suggestion that pre 1971 RE was confined to half an hour a day and that the primary schools did not have a religious ethos. It also contradicts the view that religious indoctrination became pervasive after 1971. If anything RE became less trenchant and more accomodating of alternative viewpoints post 1971.

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The unfortunate part is that the Free State didn't ensure secular education. FF also had the oportunity to do so but left things as they were, as did the various FG Lab coalitions that existed since 1948.

So it's not just a question of how the various religions came to control the education system, but how they managed to hold onto that control under the Free State and the Republic.
Sad, but following partition, it was never likely that a 95 per cent catholic state was going to change things, any more that they did in the north.

One unfortunate result of partition is that pluralism was destroyed in both states - and the "troubles" were an inevitable result on that ground alone.

True. Most schools in Northern Ireland are still denominational and that's because the school system reflects the wishes of the people. Some posters here have a hard time accepting the fact the most people in the Free State/Republic were Catholics, WANTED to be Catholics and that the Bishops spoke FOR them rather than speaking down to them. That's why the school system had a Catholic ethos. People would have sent their children to Catholic schools even if there was a purely secular alternative available.

You should qualify your comments on pluralism. In a Southern Irish context the term specifically relates to measures taken to accommodate the sexual revolution, measures which were opposed by the RCC. In every other respect Ireland was a free and democratic country.

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You didn't recognise the subtle brainwashing of children. Was it St Ignatius,founder of the Jesuits,who said "give me the child at 7 and I will show you the man."

Someone has to do the brain washing be it parents, faith schools or secular schools.

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You didn't recognise the subtle brainwashing of children. Was it St Ignatius,founder of the Jesuits,who said "give me the child at 7 and I will show you the man."

Which would you prefer. Religious indoctrination or this?

Hidden surge in classroom sex attacks - Times Online

THE spectre of a hidden epidemic of sex crimes inside Britain’s classrooms has emerged after Scotland Yard revealed there have been nearly 900 rapes or serious sex attacks in schools.

The figures - the first of their kind produced - show that 65 victims were raped in secondary and primary schools in London in the past five years. A further 826 were the target of other sexual assaults.


In response to fears about a violent crimewave in schools, the Met has dispatched 100 extra officers to patrol schools throughout the capital.

Dispatches - Rape in the City - Channel 4

In the wake of two recent, high-profile cases in which young women were brutally attacked and raped by groups of young men, journalist Sorious Samura investigates gang rape in the UK.

Using data collected from various sources, including the crown courts, barristers and rape referral centres, Dispatches attempts to discover the extent and cause of the problem. Four young victims describe their traumatic experiences, while Samura also talks to groups of teenagers about their attitudes to sex and relationships. He is appalled to hear what the boys consider to be acceptable sexual activity and the fears expressed by the girls.

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True. Most schools in Northern Ireland are still denominational and that's because the school system reflects the wishes of the people. Some posters here have a hard time accepting the fact the most people in the Free State/Republic were Catholics, WANTED to be Catholics and that the Bishops spoke FOR them rather than speaking down to them. That's why the school system had a Catholic ethos. People would have sent their children to Catholic schools even if there was a purely secular alternative available.

You should qualify your comments on pluralism. In a Southern Irish context the term specifically relates to measures taken to accommodate the sexual revolution, measures which were opposed by the RCC. In every other respect Ireland was a free and democratic country.

and yet we are still not being asked what type of schooling we would choose, when the new schools that are to be opened next Sept were announced - there was no consultation with the people in those areas to find out what THEY wanted - they were told - Catholic here, VEC there, Educate Together here. The system of opening/recognising schools and patronage needs a drastic overhaul