An interesting article on how Irish schools came under control of religion

[Catalpa]

Just asked an Irish friend about this. Their RE was one hour a week and consisted mainly of general discussions about ethics i.e. how to be a good person. And that was in a Jesuit school? I have a lots of time for Garret because he is one of the more honest politicians but where does he get his ideas from?

The Jesuits!

[wombat]

Removing religious control would remove religious intolerance.

If only the world was so simple.

[SevenStars]

Removing religious control would remove religious intolerance.

We need to move on.

Define what you mean by religious intolerance for me?

Okay remove religious control and replace it what....The "Instittute of Education"?

[wombat]

Okay remove religious control and replace it what....The "Instittute of Education"?

The Education Services Executive?

[factual]

Define what you mean by religious intolerance for me?

Okay remove religious control and replace it what....The "Instittute of Education"?

I think really that a church-run system is a bad idea in a multi religion multi cultural world that we live in now. Lets move on.

[Fraxinus_]

I went to a Catholic only school from 1960 to 1971 & while religous education was part and parcel of the deal it wasn't excessive

- indeed in our last two years it was pretty open about all the possibilities.

Our national school was probably typical of many, you had prayers in the morning, angelus at twelve followed by religion, which was really catechism and prayers in the evening. Then I went to a CBS and only in one of my five years there did we have a religion class!

[rockofcashel]

My two both go to a religious ethos school, and while their classes are now multi-religious, and they do make reference to other religions in RE, I was a little surprised that the school had "Catholic Week" the week before last. Doubly surprised when my 6 year old was asked to bring a string of rosary beads to school.

[skev]

I read the article and it is interesting but I fail to see the point. In practice non Catholics attending Catholic schools, primary and secondary, have always been exempt from RE classes and activities related to preparation for first communion and confirmation. That continued after 1972.

What does "permeate the whole curriculum" mean?

Drawing on this assertion, in 1971 the Department of Education, under Padraic Faulkner, issued new rules for primary education based, “on the following theses . . . that the separation of religious and secular instruction into differentiated subject compartments, [which had been a key element of the system since its inception] serves only to throw the whole educational function out of focus”.Thenceforth, religion was to permeate the whole curriculum.


I could understand if Garret was referring to 1872 and not 1972. I would suggest that the spirit of liberalism that engulfed the Catholic Church after Vatican 2 would have undermined the conservative moral values that Garret himself was trying to change and this would have been reflected in what was taught in the schools. Indeed my research indicates that little or no religion was taught in Irish secondary schools from the 1970s onwards. Would those of you who have been through the Irish secondary school system like to comment on this? How much time did the schools spend on RE compared to other subjects?

2 classes a week we did up till Junior Cert then I went to a non-religious school for 5th and 6th year.

Text books were all Catholic based but we had nobody from any other religion in the class

[Fraxinus_]

Removing religious control would remove religious intolerance.

We need to move on.

I have often thought the same, but would taking it out of the schools mean that kids would get after hours religious schooling, away from the eyes of the state and possibly more radical?

[skev]

Define what you mean by religious intolerance for me?

Okay remove religious control and replace it what....The "Instittute of Education"?

I went to the Institute. Its is a really bad school. They don't actually know who gets what in their leaving Certs. They send a form out to all their ex-pupils after the results come out to ask what they got. Naturally people who do badly don't reply so when they(the Institute) claim to have great results they are basing their claims on inaccurate information...