Time to secularise our primary school system.

[goatstoe]

I firmly believe that any political party that has the balls to take a secular stance on this issue will make hay on it. Parents of young kids want the very best education possible for their children. An inordinate amount of time is being taken up with religous doctrine and preparation for sacrements. It would be an attractive proposal for a lot of parents if there was a policy to minimise these religous activities, make them in the main extra curricular, and free up more time for other subjects.

I'll wager that the secularization of our schools will become politicised. There are votes in it for political parties or individuals who are prepared to run with it.

[The Underdog]

My son is in Junior Infants and an inordinate amount of his time seems to be taken up by religion. They have him learning off prayers. The time should be spent on teaching a foreign language and not wasted on that gibberish.

Sounds like you've picked the wrong school for your needs then. If there's none nearby, rather than getting bitter, how about getting togehter with like minded parents and setting up an "educate together school" that has been done sucessfully in many other areas.

[The Underdog]

Why is it taken as a given that that religious instruction is something that ought to be taught in school? What's the problem with children receiving their religious education in thier own time like they would with any other subject their parents want them instructed in; playing piano, learning French etc At a time when children are apparently struggling desperately with numeracy, obesity and our native tongue is dying on its feet, to have time spent teaching this malarkey is a tragedy.

I agree, just like in other countries, and Catholics / Protestants etc. should be free to have their own schools.

[Cato]

Sounds like you've picked the wrong school for your needs then. If there's none nearby, rather than getting bitter, how about getting togehter with like minded parents and setting up an "educate together school" that has been done sucessfully in many other areas.

It's a compromise with my GLW. She is a practicing Catholic and wants the children raised in that faith so I've promised to hold fire until they're in secondary school, at which time I'll let them know what I think about these matters. For the record though there is no educate together school nearby and I'm not bitter it's just that I think a lot of time is being wasted on teaching religion.

[Cato]

I agree, just like in other countries, and Catholics / Protestants etc. should be free to have their own schools.

Seeing as how the state is footing the bill they, the state, should and ought to insist that religious indoctrination takes place as an optional extracurricular activity. The indoctrination then provided can be according to which ever juju merchants are running the school.

[The Underdog]

Seeing as how the state is footing the bill they, the state, should and ought to insist that religious indoctrination takes place as an optional extracurricular activity. The indoctrination then provided can be according to which ever juju merchants are running the school.

I agree about the extracurricular bit. There are lots of bills the state don’t foot in schools that are paid for by other means, whether it be the parishioners or parents or both. On another note, I don’t believe it’s proper to refer to any religion as "juju merchants". Religious freedom should be respected in any democracy just as the right to a secularist and / or atheist belief should be respected.

[Warrior]

I think the idea to eradicate religious schools to be silly in the extreme.
Abuse scandals aside theres no real reason why things would be any better under a secular system. Certainly, and despite the loud and largely false claims by the atheist camp, Catholic religious are not preventing the teaching of science and logic in the schools.
On the other hand are secular schools dealing with the spiritual strengthening of our young?
Of course not!

And of course the taxpayer most likely wlll be asked to foot the bill of this ridiculous idea or project - the product of over fertile and childish imaginations built on foundations of sand

[goatstoe]

Seeing as how the state is footing the bill they, the state, should and ought to insist that religious indoctrination takes place as an optional extracurricular activity. The indoctrination then provided can be according to which ever juju merchants are running the school.

Agree with your post Cato. There is however a separate issue with the religous maintaining control over the board of management of our primary schools. This arises when they are interviewing a prospective teacher for a job. Though it may be impossible to prove, I'd safely say that a self declared non-religous person will be discriminated against under the interview process. A young student teacher will tow the line in order to secure employment, no matter what personal opinions they may have in relation to the church's unwarranted dominant role in our schools. Just another reason to remove the church from control over our schools.

[Cato]

Agree with your post Cato. There is however a seperate issue with the religous maintaining control over the board of management of our primary schools. This arises when they are interviewing a prospective teacher for a job. Though it may be impossible to prove, I'd safely say that a self declared non-religous person will be discriminated against under the interview process. A young student teacher will tow the line in order to secure employment no matter what personal opinions they may have in relation to the church's unwarranted dominant role in our schools. Just another reason to remove the church from control over our schools.

Indeed. That's a good point. Schools should no longer have a derogation under Equality legislation which has allowed them to engage in that kind of discrimination. The state should not suffer such behaviour on the grounds of mere bigotry and superstition.

[Cato]

On another note, I don’t believe it’s proper to refer to any religion as "juju merchants". Religious freedom should be respected in any democracy just as the right to a secularist and / or atheist belief should be respected.

It may not be proper but I feel that it was the right phrase to use to indicate my distain for religious belief. Please respect my freedom of expression.