Time to secularise our primary school system.

[manimus]

The question of whether it is right or wrong to indoctrinate primary school children is interesting, but it's separate from the question of whether taxpayers' money should be used to pay for teachers of Catholicism.

If parents want Catholic education for their children, and the Catholic Church wants to give it to them, why does the State need to get involved at all?

Well I was once a child who developed, and I was "taught" for over twenty years, I have even "tutored" myself in an academic setting. So I suppose I know about as much about it as anyone.

That might seem a reasonable idea, but it's not really, for much the same reason that people who have had multiple surgeries do not know as much about medicine as their doctors do.

[uriah]

The question of whether it is right or wrong to indoctrinate primary school children is interesting, but it's separate from the question of whether taxpayers' money should be used to pay for teachers of Catholicism.
If parents want Catholic education for their children, and the Catholic Church wants to give it to them, why does the State need to get involved at all?

I don't think teachers are paid for teaching catholicism.

[factual]

Catholic Church 'should give up control of primary schools' - The Irish Times - Mon, Jan 25, 2010

Now that all the furore about clerical child abuse and the utter failure of the church authorities to manage the issue has died down, it is time for this state to take control of our schools. This is not an anti-church thread - I am not really interested in what the church does. This is simply a call to parents throughout Ireland to insist on the secularization of our schools. When I went to primary school myself I remember well that at least two years in a child's school years were dominated by religous doctrine for communion and confirmation. The rest of the years also had a strong presence of religous (catholic) doctrine. It is my contention that valuable school time in our kids lives have been and continue to be dominated by religion and in particular catholic education activities. Religion should be a subject in our schools but religous doctrine and preparation for sacraments etc. should be extra curricular.

As yet no political party leader has touched this subject (secularization of our schools). I would encourage them to think about taking up the issue and make it an election issue. I am convinced there is an appetite for change among parents in Ireland on this matter.

I agree fully - time to secularise and to have multi-faith education.

Education that puts greater emphasis on explaining ALL religions.

Bringing people of different religions together.

[imokyrok]

I know of no religion that calls for children to be abused.

You ought to try reading the stories of survivors of fundamentalism in the US. Truly tragic childhoods.

[rhonda15]

In the States they pay thousands of dollars a year to send their child to Catholic schools (even kids who are not Catholic) - it is a prestigious thing there to send your child to Catholic school as opposed to public schools.

Here we get it all for free and we don't appreciate it.

Plus there are many studies to suggest that pupils who go to "faith-based" schools do much better on test scores.

It will be a sad day in Ireland if we secularize the school system.

[Cato]

In the States they pay thousands of dollars a year to send their child to Catholic schools (even kids who are not Catholic) - it is a prestigious thing there to send your child to Catholic school as opposed to public schools.

Here we get it all for free and we don't appreciate it.

Plus there are many studies to suggest that pupils who go to "faith-based" schools do much better on test scores.

It will be a sad day in Ireland if we secularize the school system.

I don't think that they should be fully secularized, but the religious indoctrination should take place at the end of the school day and attendance should be optional. I've come to the opinion that parental choice should be respected, but children should not be forced into religious indoctrination classes simply because there was no other school local to them.

There should be more non and multi denominational schools set up.

[imokyrok]

In the States they pay thousands of dollars a year to send their child to Catholic schools (even kids who are not Catholic) - it is a prestigious thing there to send your child to Catholic school as opposed to public schools.

Here we get it all for free and we don't appreciate it.

Plus there are many studies to suggest that pupils who go to "faith-based" schools do much better on test scores.

It will be a sad day in Ireland if we secularize the school system.

That will have less to do with religion and more to do with being private schools with all the additional resources and exclusivity such schools bring.

[rhonda15]

That will have less to do with religion and more to do with being private schools with all the additional resources and exclusivity such schools bring.

No it would have more to do with the fact the Irish state subsidizes Catholic schools while in the States they do not and the only option left if you don't have money is the crummy public school system.

[manimus]

I don't think teachers are paid for teaching catholicism.

Teachers are paid to deliver a curriculum, which consists of English, Irish, Maths, History, Geography, Science, Music, Art, Drama, PE, SPHE and religion. In Catholic schools, religion is exclusively Catholic indoctrination. I don't know how else to describe that other than to say they are paid for teaching Catholicism.

By the way, 2.5 hours per week is allocated to religion. This is more than double the amount of time spent on History, on Geography, on Science, on Music, on Art, on Drama, on PE, and on SPHE.

[Thac0man]

By the way, 2.5 hours per week is allocated to religion. This is more than double the amount of time spent on History, on Geography, on Science, on Music, on Art, on Drama, on PE, and on SPHE.

Two things wrong, not with you analysis, but its basis and some assumptions others make.

Firstly, taking your point, it raises a serious question. Religous schools even with time allocated to religous subjects still out proform Secular ones. 2.5 hrs, if true, is alot in terms of time for secular schools to have extra per week to dedicate towards educating pupils and still not get near their religious "rivals" in terms of results.

That alone adds alot of weight to the issue that already seems to sink any argument that Secular schools can complete.

Now the assumption that people seem to make is that studying religon in school and having religous schools somehow is dangerous. That is simple nonsense. Some of the most violent malcontents this state has or has ever seen have been avowed athiests or were adherants to an athiest docterine.

We might also consider that morality is something our secular society is obessed with. Yet that is the one thing that through its secular education system our society cannot impart without said efforts being open to claims of political interferance. In the much broader secular education system in the UK, arguments about issues that concern morality in the curriculum; when compared with Ireland, are much more frequent.