Time to secularise our primary school system.

[The Field Marshal]

Like the 61% of respondents to the recent Irish Times poll?

What about the fact that not one of the teacher training colleges offers non-denominational training to teachers?

Aren't the colleges that train primary teachers part of the primary school system?

The Irish Times newspaper is not a trustworthy publication.


If atheists or non denominatioalists want to set up their own schools of training teachers they are free to do so.

Its unfair to piggy back on denominational training centres as you suggest.

The colleges that train teachers I believe are separate from the primary school system ,does it matter one way or the other?.

Let each ,and no denomination, look after their own.


zcz

[sondagefaux]

Ah come on now, how much training do these people really receive?

That's an argument!? You obviously haven't got a fecking clue about what teachers do, what teaching involves and how powerful a force it can be in child development.

If a parent is giving a stranger this much influence over the development of their child, maybe they should try harder at being a parent.

Or maybe they should have the option of not having their children influenced in ways they don't want their children to be influenced.

There are four main influences on children - their parents and immediate family (older siblings etc), their peers, their schools and the media.

What are you implying with that remark? That parents who fail to counteract the influence of schooling on their children are bad parents?

[sondagefaux]

The Irish Times newspaper is not a trustworthy publication.

Another great argument!

If atheists or non denominatioalists want to set up their own schools of training teachers they are free to do so.

Are they? With what money? The money they might use is being taken from them in taxes and used to fund denominational teacher training colleges.

Its unfair to piggy back on denominational training centres as you suggest.

It's fair that Christian denominations get to piggyback on taxes paid by non-Christian taxpayers?

The colleges that train teachers I believe are separate from the primary school system ,does it matter one way or the other?.

Clearly they are part of the system. Unless you're claiming that primary schools teachers aren't part of the primary school system?

Let each ,and no denomination, look after their own.

If that was how the present system operated it might not be so bad. At present all taxpayers, whether Christian or not, fund the Christian teacher training colleges and the denominational schools.

[sauntersplash]

I didn't write the article nor did I write it's title so please don't quote me as if I did.

You're right. I apologise.

What skills are developed by teaching a child about the doctrines of a particular religion?

As the dominant ideology on the entire planet earth for the last twenty centuries or so. You'd be surprised to learn how much of our thinking can be understood through the lens of Christianity. How about the "skills" of justice, equality, compassion, metaphysics, meditation, hermeneutics, literary criticism, history...

Perhaps the ability to reason properly might be a more useful skill...

Now I have a research Master's in Philosophy and I have absolutely no idea how you would teach somebody how to "reason", short of handing them a textbook on formal logic. After six years studying the subject I don't even know what "reason" is, and you'll be pleased to discover that most of the activity of "professional" philosophers (the priests of "reason") is devoted to debating this very topic.

Classes on ethics, philosophy? Philosophy is taught as a mainstream subject in French schools.

There is no strict delineation between philosophy and "religion". Teaching philosophy does not automatically open people's minds and make them into free thinking liberated children of the enlightenment. No more than teaching them science does . Anyway, a well rounded course in academic "Western" philosophy will consist of maybe sixty percent "Christian" thinkers. The ideology having been so dominant for so long, as I have previously mentioned.

But either way all you are doing is telling kids what other people make of the experience of being human. Whether that's Buddha and Christ, Darwin and Hawking or Wittgenstein and Deleuze doesn't really make much difference to me, once it manages to spark off an interest in "The Big Questions".

Speak for yourself.

I never do anything else.

Indeed. But any exploration which has decided on the mode of travel, the route and the destination doesn't sound like true exploration to me.

Every exploration "has decided on the mode of travel, the route and the destination". Science, Religion, Politics, Economics... that is why genuine innovation is so rare.

[The Field Marshal]

Another great argument!

Well well well.

The Irish Times is not a trustworthy newspaper.

So.

This newspaper that you therefor trust is neither politically partisan or free from religious bias in your opinion.?

How gullible can you be.

[Mercurial]

Don't the Germans have a system whereby one can decide whether one's taxes go to one's particular church?

[sauntersplash]

That's an argument!? You obviously haven't got a fecking clue about what teachers do, what teaching involves and how powerful a force it can be in child development.

Well I was once a child who developed, and I was "taught" for over twenty years, I have even "tutored" myself in an academic setting. So I suppose I know about as much about it as anyone. This comment was firmly tongue in cheek, I know teachers do a lot of good work.

Or maybe they should have the option of not having their children influenced in ways they don't want their children to be influenced.

Home school?

There are four main influences on children - their parents and immediate family (older siblings etc), their peers, their schools and the media.

You may as well say "the world influences children". Too vague to be useful.

What are you implying with that remark? That parents who fail to counteract the influence of schooling on their children are bad parents?

Pretty much.

[rant_and_rave]

Won't happen. Some Parents want faith schools and will vote for political parties that give them what they want. Just look around Europe and see how many countries do not have faith schools.

Ireland(North & South), Germany, France, Britain, and Spain all have faith schools. I can't name any that don't. Can you?

[sandar]

cant you have faitth and non faith schools

[White Horse]

As one who was abused in the name of religion.....

I know of no religion that calls for children to be abused.