Union relevance to modern Ireland

[fiannafailure]

There seems to be a very polarised debate at present on the relevance of the trade union movement to the challenges of our present economy and society.
I am personally of the opinion that in general there is a need for an organisation that has the interests of workers as its primary concern, however the trade union movement as presently constituted is failing miserably in this regard.

I offer one example, the policy of the HSE at present, is to concentrate effort in what are called centre's of excellence, these centre's obviate the need for ill people to travel long distances for treatment and may indeed be a better way to provide patient care, however the policy needs ambulance transport.
Again the policy seems to be that private ambulance services will provide the bulk of this work, and yet many of these private providers, including the biggest private ambulance service in the country, pay only barely above minimum wage for highly qualified paramedics and so these staff are forced to work horrendous hours and under very poor conditions in order to pay their way. This has obvious ramifications for patient safety and care.

Many of these companies, including again the biggest, refuse to recognise unions and as it seems the policy of the union movement is to require that where this is the case, potential members must pay 6 months dues in advance, in order to be accepted as members, they in effect remove themselves from the problem and workers who need their help are left to fend for themselves.

Why should the unions have the support of the general public, when they only want to cherry pick who they help. And of course the enployers have noticed this

[Factorem]

Trade union movement in Ireland in 2009: pack of corrupt ********************ers.

What do the government have to do exactly for them to organise a protest? They're in cahoots with the government who fear public disorder and civil unrest.

[fiannafailure]

Factorem

The silence of the unions on this issue is an indictment on their professionalism.

[fiannafailure]

THe silence of the union supporters in this forum on this issue is actually quite an embarrassment for them and blows a hole in all of their rhetoric over the years

[Jacob Richter]

I am personally of the opinion that in general there is a need for an organisation that has the interests of workers as its primary concern, however the trade union movement as presently constituted is failing miserably in this regard.

Once upon a time, trade unions themselves:

1) Were alliances of the employed and unemployed; and
2) Provided social and recreational services to workers.

Even before the emergence of the welfare state, #1 was crumbling because of the careerism of union bureaucrats (catering to the immediate section of the class they "represented"), and with the emergence of the welfare state, the unions "specialized" in business unionism / collective bargainism.

Workplaces have become smaller, so any organization that genuinely represents workers needs to do so not at the level of the workplace, but at the level of the district.

This is where genuine political parties, ones that also provide an alternative way of life, come into play.

[fiannafailure]

Once upon a time, trade unions themselves:

1) Were alliances of the employed and unemployed; and
2) Provided social and recreational services to workers.

Even before the emergence of the welfare state, #1 was crumbling because of the careerism of union bureaucrats (catering to the immediate section of the class they "represented"), and with the emergence of the welfare state, the unions "specialized" in business unionism / collective bargainism.

Workplaces have become smaller, so any organization that genuinely represents workers needs to do so not at the level of the workplace, but at the level of the district.

This is where genuine political parties, ones that also provide an alternative way of life, come into play.

That is a very profound analysis of the situation, therefore the union movement can no longer claim to be representing workers, they in effect are only in the business of representing themselves.

Perhaps we should bear this in mind in the future when presented with a picket line, the choice you have to make is, what has that union ever done for me and not I shouldnt cross this picket as an act of support for workers.

So worker solidarity is dead and has been replaced with worker capitalism

[patslatt]

There seems to be a very polarised debate at present on the relevance of the trade union movement to the challenges of our present economy and society.
I am personally of the opinion that in general there is a need for an organisation that has the interests of workers as its primary concern, however the trade union movement as presently constituted is failing miserably in this regard.

I offer one example, the policy of the HSE at present, is to concentrate effort in what are called centre's of excellence, these centre's obviate the need for ill people to travel long distances for treatment and may indeed be a better way to provide patient care, however the policy needs ambulance transport.
Again the policy seems to be that private ambulance services will provide the bulk of this work, and yet many of these private providers, including the biggest private ambulance service in the country, pay only barely above minimum wage for highly qualified paramedics and so these staff are forced to work horrendous hours and under very poor conditions in order to pay their way. This has obvious ramifications for patient safety and care.

Many of these companies, including again the biggest, refuse to recognise unions and as it seems the policy of the union movement is to require that where this is the case, potential members must pay 6 months dues in advance, in order to be accepted as members, they in effect remove themselves from the problem and workers who need their help are left to fend for themselves.

Why should the unions have the support of the general public, when they only want to cherry pick who they help. And of course the enployers have noticed this

There must be an oversupply of paramedics,hence the low wages. I understand that unionised paramedics make huge money,which,if true,would prove the stupidity of HSE and hospital managements.

Trade unions have one function-getting more pay for less work.Social Partnership is a charade to help tame union militancy. Unions are a necessary nuisance,like policemen-you wish you didn't need them but you have to have them to keep greedy employers checked.

[fiannafailure]

There must be an oversupply of paramedics,hence the low wages. I understand that unionised paramedics make huge money,which,if true,would prove the stupidity of HSE and hospital managements.

Trade unions have one function-getting more pay for less work.Social Partnership is a charade to help tame union militancy. Unions are a necessary nuisance,like policemen-you wish you didn't need them but you have to have them to keep greedy employers checked.

Rather than an oversupply of paramedics they do not have a union to represent them.

It is rather strange that the HSE is now dependent on non unionised labour in ambulance services, I wonder have SIPTU copped on that they are being neatly sidestepped

[powderfinger]

Trade unionism in Ireland as it evolved from the 1913 lock-out has been mangled by social partnership.The further split into the now called public sector and private sector branches further dilutes solidarity.
Where are the Brothers Begg and O'Connor on Nama?
They are not leaders,they are followers.

It is worth recalling Larkin's fundamental principle.
An injury to one is the concern of all.


William Martin Murphy must be laughing in his grave.

[fiannafailure]

powderfinger

It is worth recalling Larkin's fundamental principle.
An injury to one is the concern of all.

I stated the other day that James Larkin would burn down Liberty Hall if he came back and seen what his work had produced in the end.

And still the silence from all the pro union heads