Local Currency Plan

[Supermanpolitician]

The barter system is not meant to replace money. It is a complimentary system, usual for businesses with excess capacity or stock. It works very well for many businesses.

One obviously cannot replace the entire monetary system with it, but no one is suggesting that. One should replace the debt-based monetary system with a Government-issued money system.

That sentence doesn't even make sense.

Nobody has any problem with businesses swapping excess stock for something they need.

Governments issue money through their central banks.People still get into debt.
Even the euro is issued by the governments of the participating countries through the ECB.

Do you think that governments should stop loaning to other governments to avoid countries having debt? Or should we just stop people borrowing?

[Kensington]

Do you think that governments should stop loaning to other governments to avoid countries having debt?

Government's do not issue money, the ECB do. 2% of the money supply is comprised of notes and coins. This is created debt-free by the ECB. 98% of money is created as debt by private banks.

The 98% should be created as the 2& now is. Except, it should be created by an Irish Central Bank; not the ECB. Of course, people will still get in debt and borrow money, but the money supply itself should not be created as debt. It is the root of our economic problems.

Do you think that governments should stop loaning to other governments to avoid countries having debt?

Well yes, like Keynes, i think that all countries' imports and exports should be roughly equal. But that is a separate issue.

[Supermanpolitician]

Government's do not issue money, the ECB do. 2% of the money supply is comprised of notes and coins. This is created debt-free by the ECB. 98% of money is created as debt by private banks.

The 98% should be created as the 2& now is. Except, it should be created by an Irish Central Bank; not the ECB. Of course, people will still get in debt and borrow money, but the money supply itself should not be created as debt. It is the root of our economic problems.




Well yes, like Keynes, i think that all countries' imports and exports should be roughly equal. But that is a separate issue.

You have zero understanding of Keynes. How can a country like Andorra have exports equal to China? Clueless.

You have not got a clue.

Also central banks are arms of governments.

Also you are incorrect in saying that banks create money. This is not true at all. In some cases they print notes, they offer credit, etc, but they do not create money. A bank with no assets cannot magically create money. If they want to issue credit where they do not have the assets to back it, they must seek regulatory approval.

You have zero understanding of economics, banking or life.

[Kensington]

How can a country like Andorra have exports equal to China? Clueless.

Eh ... what? Where did i ever suggest that?!

Also central banks are arms of governments.

Yes, to an extend.

Also you are incorrect in saying that banks create money. This is not true at all.

Ah, is that so. So, you Superman, are telling me that you think private banks do not create money when they give a loan by crediting the money into the borrower's account?

I assume you think that they debit the money from their own account or from the deposits at the bank?

A bank with no assets cannot magically create money.

That is correct. A bank cannot magically create money without deposits and the amount it can create is limited by the deposits.

You have zero understanding of economics, banking or life.

It is interesting. Of course, you certainly are not the only person to not understand the fractional reserve banking system. But it is amazing how few people actually do understand where our money comes from. 100 years ago, it would have been common knowledge. Peasants voted for candidates who wanted to monetize silver, print greenbacks and issue national dividends.

Nowadays, people seem clueless, bar, it must be said, libertarians as well as other monetary reformers, far from the mainstream.

You have zero understanding of economics, banking or life.

The funny thing is, i want the system to work as you describe it. Unfortunately, you are being sold a big lie. Unfortunately, you've bought it.

[Supermanpolitician]

Eh ... what? Where did i ever suggest that?!



Yes, to an extend.



Ah, is that so. So, you Superman, are telling me that you think private banks do not create money when they give a loan by crediting the money into the borrower's account?

I assume you think that they debit the money from their own account or from the deposits at the bank?



That is correct. A bank cannot magically create money without deposits and the amount it can create is limited by the deposits.



It is interesting. Of course, you certainly are not the only person to not understand the fractional reserve banking system. But it is amazing how few people actually do understand where our money comes from. 100 years ago, it would have been common knowledge. Peasants voted for candidates who wanted to monetize silver, print greenbacks and issue national dividends.

Nowadays, people seem clueless, bar, it must be said, libertarians as well as other monetary reformers, far from the mainstream.




The funny thing is, i want the system to work as you describe it. Unfortunately, you are being sold a big lie. Unfortunately, you've bought it.

Yes so a guy who has studied economics for seven years of his life, holders a masters degree and worked in finance for ten years understand less about money than a student who suggests that we have a barter system.

[Supermanpolitician]

Still waiting for an answer on how someone pays for an MRI scan using barter?

[Kensington]

Yes so a guy who has studied economics for seven years of his life, holders a masters degree and worked in finance for ten years understand less about money than a student who suggests

You are telling me that you have studied economics for 7 years and have never heard of fractional reserve banking?

Please tell me this. I am sure you can. When a bank gives a loan and credits it into the borrowers account, does it or does it not debit the money from another account in the bank?

Where do you think the credit money comes from?

Do you know that notes and coins account for only about 2% of the total money supply.

than a student who suggests that we have a barter system.

I never suggested that.

Still waiting for an answer on how someone pays for an MRI scan using barter?

I don't know. Why would that situation ever arise?

[Supermanpolitician]

You are telling me that you have studied economics for 7 years and have never heard of fractional reserve banking?

You tell me this. I am sure you can. When a bank gives a loan and credits it into the borrowers account, does it or does it not debit the money from another account in the bank?

Where do you think the credit money comes from?

Do you know that notes and coins account for only about 2% of the total money supply.



I never suggested that.



I don't know. Why would that situation ever arise?

Well when someone is ill and needs and internal exam, an MRI is often used.

You think the person should pay for it using barter? Ridiculous.

You have literally no understanding of how banks work which I suppose makes you quite like some of my work colleagues.

Yes I do know that the percentage of cash is very low, but you are equating cash with government permitted money.

As regards your accounatncy question, that is very simple. When a bank loans money of course they put through another accounting entry to show that the money is owed. How do you think banks make money? However the profit that a bank makes is the difference between what the customer paid back and what the bank paid to lend that money? However when the bank makes a profit on this, it does not create new money.

You seem to equate bank profits with creating new money.

[Kensington]

You think the person should pay for it using barter? Ridiculous.

I never suggested that!

As regards your accounatncy question, that is very simple. When a bank loans money of course they put through another accounting entry to show that the money is owed.

That was not my question. John goes into a bank and asks for a loan of 1000 Euro. The bank credits 1000 Euro into John's account. Where does that 1000 Euro come from?

Now, i am talking about the money supply. I am not talking about notes and coins but the credit money.

I mean, it has its own wikipedia page.

Money creation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How do you think banks make money?

The difference between the interest it takes in and the interest it pays out, and other bank charges.

[Supermanpolitician]

I never suggested that!



That was not my question. John goes into a bank and asks for a loan of 1000 Euro. The bank credits 1000 Euro into John's account. Where does that 1000 Euro come from?

Now, i am talking about the money supply. I am not talking about notes and coins but the credit money.

I mean, it has its own wikipedia page.

Money creation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The difference between the interest it takes in and the interest it pays out, and other bank charges.

Dear God, would you ever go into a bank and see how the very basics of banking work! (Mind you I found myself saying the same at Anglo).

If banks created money, then we would not have a banking crisis. Banks could just create money.

Sweet lord, I cannot believe your utter ignorance.