Nama: what is long term economic value ?

[Nipper]

Firstly, you don't know who or what I am, therefore you are not in a position to say you are more qualified on "this" than I am.
The above is a small point but does go to show a lack of any kind of clear thinking on your part.

1) You are reading insults that are not there. I said I wont
tell you why I am more qualified than you on the topic. Because obviously I have no way of knowing that. You are the one that mentioned your accountant and I agreed you should discuss this with them.


The rest of your "questions" have all been answered if you were to pay attention as these threads go along.

2) you have not answered any question in relation to how you can create a long trm economic value outside of the market value

The only new item you bring up is the matter of a liquidator. Assuming the developer cannot meet their repayments they will go into liquidation but with NAMA acting as liquidator for the properties concerned and NAMA will put the property on the market when it judges the maximum return for the taxpayer is available and not before. This information has been freely available and was included in a recent article by Alan Ahearn in the IT. So in essence, qualified you may be but well read on NAMA you are not.

3) What is the value of the asset in the books of NAMA if the developer defaults on its debt?, and how do they treat the excess between what they paid for the debt and the value of the property? Is this an asset, a liability or a loss?

[HanleyS]

Profits are not guaranteed, I never said or even hinted that they were.
Costs are a floor on price, long term, as sure as night follows day.

Cost are never a floor on price. To try and suggest they are is to say that profits are guaranteed. Businesses that survive long term must keep their costs lower than their prices. That's the nature of competition and the nature of enterprise. The entrepreneur takes the risk that the price they sell for will not exceed their costs. Overpaying for inputs increases the risk that these entrepreneurs will fail. Failed entrepreneurs like Liam Carroll and Hugh O'Regan thought that costs were a floor on prices and profits were guaranteed. That's what makes them poor businessmen and that's why they failed.

From my point of view I'd like to get something straight here before we both spend what is left of our lives on this site.

I am not trying to convince you of anything, I have no interest in convincing you of anything. You will continue to believe as you do, as will I. Time will show on balance, which of us was in the right of it.

In the meantime I post here merely to show there is an alternative view and so as not to leave the anti NAMA gaggle taking to themselves and thereby not only convincing themselves that they are right, but worse, in the case of most of them, that they actually know what they are talking about.

What that boils down to is 101 replies on the same concept are not required or necessary, you state your case, I state mine, end of.

Absolutely, that's the nature of debate. I will continue to highlight the obvious and fundamental shortcomings of the plan you are espousing. Personally I think you lack understanding of the fundamentals of economics, markets and business. I've been involved in this debate for a lot longer than you and I can also actually sympathise with being on the minority side of the debate.