2009 to-do list, 1: Cut taxes, 2: double national debt?

[feargach]

If people dont spend their money then we have no tax take. If people regain confidence through lower taxes and start spending more we can potentially gain more tax revenue this way than simply raising taxes. Finding the correct balance is the key, not simply raising taxes as doing what seems most obvious, could be our downfall.

There's a thing called DIRT. You could raise that to income tax levels if you wanted to persuade people of the benfits of spending as compared to hoarding, without simply cutting taxes.

If people are already committed to cutting their spending, then a tax cut will mean they just have more to save, and it won't appear in the revenue's kitty at all.

[SamVimesBoots]

People are slashing their spending in order to pay off their debts! This process will continue for another 2-3 years at least until the household debt burden starts to approach manageable levels.

Any attempts to bring back the boom by encouraging people to spend on bling-und-tat again is thus doomed to failure.

But debt-based consumerism and housing bubbles is the only thing the generation in charge understands, so they'll keep on vainly tilting away, trying to solve the wrong problem, as the economy implodes.

[sparkey321]

But seeing as we are apparently locked into a massive, unprecedented rise in debt costs, even a flatline in the overall tax take puts us in the extreme red end of the default potential spectrum.

Sorry lads, but we are committing to the biggest public debt in Irish history: there's no way of safely being in that position without expanding the tax take. It is a really serious thing if you default on debt.

Again where did you get the idea there would be a flatline in the overall tax take ?

What are you basing that assumption on ?

There will be an overall increase in taxation and radical cuts in spending.....

Thats allready been accepted and admitted by the government...

We can default on debt no problem just dont expect to get anymore.... Even for capital projects..... It would also danage the Euro

[feargach]

People are slashing their spending in order to pay off their debts! This process will continue for another 2-3 years at least until the household debt burden starts to approach manageable levels.

Right, so the only way to get their money going towards paying the NAMA debt-mountain is to take it from them in tax. Hate to be so blunt about it, but if Ireland defaults, everyone in Ireland is screwed, but if individuals default those individuals are in trouble.

Besides, if the state defaults, the individuals will be screwed anyway in a thousand different ways.

[SamVimesBoots]

And tens of thousands of households are only just hanging on by their fingertips right now - tax them much more and they will default for sure.

We're already insolvent, just like the banks, but again just like the banks we're desperately pulling rabbits out of the hat to try and distract everyone from this reality.

Maybe this could have been averted if people had listened a couple of years ago, but at this stage there's no way out. The Republic has failed and sovereign default is inevitable now. A load of smokes and daggers and thrown apple tarts might postpone the day for another 12 months at best, but that day is coming and there is no escape.

We need now to be turning our attention to the aftermath - how to purge and rebuild the system, how to regain national sovereignty once lost, and how to rebuild a sustainable economy.

*ponders the curse of always being one step ahead*

[fiannafailure]

And tens of thousands of households are only just hanging on by their fingertips right now - tax them much more and they will default for sure.

We're already insolvent, just like the banks, but again just like the banks we're desperately pulling rabbits out of the hat to try and distract everyone from this reality.

Maybe this could have been averted if people had listened a couple of years ago, but at this stage there's no way out. The Republic has failed and sovereign default is inevitable now. A load of smokes and daggers and thrown apple tarts might postpone the day for another 12 months at best, but that day is coming and there is no escape.

We need now to be turning our attention to the aftermath - how to purge and rebuild the system, how to regain national sovereignty once lost, and how to rebuild a sustainable economy.

*ponders the curse of always being one step ahead*

We may be insolvent but the world is willing to look the other way for a while, default is not an option for the system and provided we show initiative we will be supported. Why not build the sustainable economy without defaulting, this would be an easier ask