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About LinkBacksye and neay to the questionsOriginally Posted by Bean
ye and neay to the questions
It can't be built in. That would defeat the purpose.
The Banks will be nationalised within the next 12 months regardless.And of course the best way of making sure it happens is nationalisation of the banks, as was done in Sweden, so that both up and downside are in public ownership.
The issue of pricing will be decided by the EU, and will probably be based on a 20 year moving average. This would see us paying about 50% of the 2006 peak on average.The whole issue of pricing would be resolved by temporary or permanent nationalisation.
In what way have they lied?Lenihan and Bacon have lied about nationalisation. They are protecting bondholders and shareholders at the expense of the rest of the population.
Nationalisation is coming anyway, but it makes more sense to do it at the right time and for the right reasons. What would we achieve by doing it now, other than closing off opportunities to raise capital on the open market.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain
“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
I'm still waiting for someone to put forward an alternative plan.
We have loads of nitpicking and doom-mongering about the current proposal, but nobody is putting forward an alternative?
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain
“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
Inject 30 billion in the banks, taking equity in exchange.
Pursue the builder/developer for repayment of loans through the court. Repossesing the buildings and other assets. Also jailing any banker who is shown to have acted corruptly in handing out the loans.
Banks have cash, taxpayer owns everything, and we have have no need to trust Lenny, when he says he will pursue his buddies sometime in the vague future.
We all agree that AIB and BOI should be allowed stand. Its the bailout of FF`s buddies and Anglo that is a corrupt use of the taxpayers money.And a legacy that will choke the youth of this country for years to come.
Of course it can be built in. If NAMA and the banks get their valuations right, there is no reason not to build it in, since the banks won't be losing anything. The only reason to not build it in is if the valuations are way too high, thus passing the buck from the banks to the taxpayers.
You seem like a reasonable person SPN, but you're fighting against the tide on behalf of sandcastles. Consider alternate allegiances would be my advice, for what its worth.
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That still leaves the property loans on the Balance Sheet. Do you not understand the importance of removing these to quarantine?
+1Pursue the builder/developer for repayment of loans through the court. Repossesing the buildings and other assets. Also jailing any banker who is shown to have acted corruptly in handing out the loans.
Banks have Cash, but they also have the property loans on their Balance Sheets. That won't do anything for anybody. The worst of all outcomes.Banks have cash, taxpayer owns everything, and we have have no need to trust Lenny, when he says he will pursue his buddies sometime in the vague future.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain
“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
It can't be built in, and nor should it be built in. You can see where this was explained to me back in January in the David McWilliams thread.
It can always be introduced in the future if it is needed.
I'm not "fighting" anything. I'm just making sure that the discussions revolve around factual information instead of rumour and fantasy.You seem like a reasonable person SPN, but you're fighting against the tide on behalf of sandcastles. Consider alternate allegiances would be my advice, for what its worth.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain
“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
This isn't complex stuff here. The closer to reality that the banks and NAMA get their valuations, the less defaults there will be, therefore the less the banks will have to repay. Unless there is an expectation that the valuations will be wildly off base, the banks should be quite entheusiastic about structuring payback into the valuations.
These people made the bets, and took the profits, they DO NOT get to pawn off the losses on me and the rest of the citizenry. Understand this point very well.
Suit yourself. I started a thread defending the merits of NAMA yesterday, maybe ask yourself why I've changed tack now. Then maybe ask yourself if you should be doing the same.
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I agree that the levy can't be put into the legislation but why not try something different that can be put in?
The valuations that NAMA buys the loans for will have nothing to do with the rate of defaults. The default will be on the original loan amount not the amount NAMA bought the loan for.
The valuations issue relates to how much of a stake the taxpayer gets in the Banks when they are recapitalised. If we pay too much for the loan book the Bank will need less money in the form of recapitalisation.
Look at it a different way: The amount of money that has to go into the Banks to straighten their Balance Sheets is fixed. It is a known number. Some of that money will come in the form of NAMA Bonds, and some of it will come in the form of Ordinary (or Preference) Shares. If we pay too much for the Loan Book we get less Shares later. Shares are the best way to getting our money back.
You, me, and the rest of the Citizenry voted in the Councillors. We now get to pick up the tab. The trick is to minimise the size of the tab.These people made the bets, and took the profits, they DO NOT get to pawn off the losses on me and the rest of the citizenry. Understand this point very well.
The only way out of the mess we are in is to use a NAMA of some sort.Suit yourself. I started a thread defending the merits of NAMA yesterday, maybe ask yourself why I've changed tack now. Then maybe ask yourself if you should be doing the same.
The Government have put out a proposal for how it could work. If people see problems, or better ways of doing things, then they can be looked at during the debates on the Bill in the Oireachtas.
If there is something you want to see changed, go talk to your local TD or Senator.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain
“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
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