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Thread: Time To Close Down the Anglo Irish Bank

  1. #1
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    Time To Close Down the Anglo Irish Bank

    David O'Connor said to the Oireachtas Committee that the Anglo Irish Board had considered closing the bank down but that their instructions from Lenihan were to keep it going "to maximise recovery of the bad loans".

    Either Lenihan is in dangerous denial about the real prospects for Anglo Irish's property lendings or he is deliberately misrepresenting the position for some reason not apparent.

    Anglo board considered wind-down of bank - chairman - The Irish Times - Wed, Jun 10, 2009

    John McManus pointed out in the excellent short article on Monday that Lenihan is wrong and that the wind down of the Bank can and should be carried out right away.

    Anglo – which has not lent a euro since September – is to be kept alive rather than closed down because the Government says it cannot afford to shut it down. Specifically, it does not think it can sell the loan book or the deposit book or run the risk of burning the bond holders. Amazingly, everybody seems to have accepted this fiction, despite the total mess the Government and Anglo have made of things so far.

    ...Banking is about your reputation and customers’ trust. Anglo has neither. Rightly so. Would you do business with – or extend credit to – a company that told you it was banked by a bank that has written off €30 million in loans to its own directors, but still has the same management, bar a couple of high-profile casualties? Would you do business with a bank that lent money to clients to buy its shares and then wrote it off? Would you do business with a bank that routinely manipulated its accounts and is being investigated by the Garda? It is simply fantasy to think that Anglo has a future.

    The failure to confront reality also lies behind the other arguments put forward for why a wind-down is not a good idea.

    First here is the notion that announcing the bank is being wound down would trigger a mass exodus of deposits. Again, it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. The bank is already being wound down as far as big depositors are concerned. Hence the departure of one-third of its deposits since last September.

    Its utterly naive to think this will stop simply because the Government says the bank has a future and will throw €7.5 billion into it. The deposit base is gone. Any deposits that remain in Anglo are there only because the Government has guaranteed them or Anglo is paying over the odds. They will remain for as long as these two measures are in place.

    (The corollary of this is that the guarantee – which weighs heavily on the costs of our national debt – must remain in place for as long as Anglo limps on.)

    ...The longer the Government waits in trying to sell the Anglo deposit book, the less it will be worth. Eventually, it will be worthless.

    Meanwhile, the problem of how to keep Anglo liquid is still there. It will just keep on borrowing from the European Central Bank (ECB) to replace deposits. The ECB currently provides one-third of Anglo’s deposits and this figure will just keep on rising.

    As for Anglo’s loan book, the bulk is going to the National Asset Management Agency (Nama) anyway. The remainder must have some value, possibly to private equity. Again, the longer the Government waits, the less it is worth as more and more clients just stop paying because they don’t think Anglo will be around to collect.

    The final argument for keeping Anglo going is that it has €20 billion in bonds the Government would have to honour. Some €10 billion of this is reported to be secured and thus must be honoured in full. The holders of the other €10 billion will do the same sort of deal with the State they are doing with the owners of failed banks everywhere else.

    Rather than damage Ireland’s reputation, burning the bond holders might even enhance it as they would see it as a sign the Government has command of the situation. Bond holders are big boys.

    The net issue seems to be what to do about the €10 billion of secured debt. It seems pretty clear the effect of taking this on to the national balance sheet is not that different to issuing €7.5 billion in fresh debt to put cash into Anglo. And if you anticipate a reduction in Irish debt-service costs as a result of being able to unwind the blanket guarantee after two years because Anglo is gone, you could even save money. Equally, there has to be a wider bonus for cleaning up the banking sector.
    High time for State to make a killing - Anglo Irish Bank - The Irish Times - Mon, Jun 08, 2009

    Maintaining Anglo Irish is costing a fortune and the longer this is dragged out the worse it will be. Since that article was written Ireland's sovereing debt has again been downgraded (and thus made more expensive) specifically because of the drain of the Anglo Irish Bank. This gives the lie to Lenihan's claim that keeping it going is in some way protecting the Iirish economy.

    Both the Bank and Lenihan should go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John McManus View Post
    Its utterly naive to think this will stop simply because the Government says the bank has a future and will throw €7.5 billion into it. The deposit base is gone. Any deposits that remain in Anglo are there only because the Government has guaranteed them or Anglo is paying over the odds. They will remain for as long as these two measures are in place.

    (The corollary of this is that the guarantee – which weighs heavily on the costs of our national debt – must remain in place for as long as Anglo limps on.)

    ...The longer the Government waits in trying to sell the Anglo deposit book, the less it will be worth. Eventually, it will be worthless.
    The above section shows that McManus is talking out of his ringhole.

    Firstly, it doesn't matter why the deposit base is there. The fact is that is is there and has to be dealt with. If the guarantee is withdrawn, there will be a run on the deposits which the taxpayer will have to meet. That's €64bn. To suggest that we can simply withdraw the guarantee and that there are no consequences is ridiculous. This was pointed out by O'Connor today when he said that even a hint of a wind down could cost the taxpayer a fortune.

    Secondly, WTF is he talking about re. selling the deposit base??? The deposit base is a liability, not an asset. Its like saying you can sell your mortgage to someone. Tool.

    Anglos only substantial asset is what is left of its loan book, and that clearly isn't of sufficient value to even coming close to meeting deposit demand, so a wind down in not in anyone's interests.
    A demagogue is someone who will preach doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots.

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    My understanding is that the state is liable for all the loans made to Anglo, and all deposits. So there is very little cost difference between closing it and keeping it open...

    But if it is kept functioning for another 14 months or so, the state guarantee on inter-bank lending to Anglo expires...

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    Quote Originally Posted by seabhcan View Post
    My understanding is that the state is liable for all the loans made to Anglo, and all deposits. So there is very little cost difference between closing it and keeping it open...
    Except that the Guarantee is conceptual liability which a wind down would make an actual liability.

    The Guarantee exists so that the likelihood of its execution is reduced. The idea is to avoid the exposure thorough recapitalisation rather than dealing with it. Obviously, at some point, recapitalisation may become more expensive, but if we get to that point, someone else will be running the country.
    A demagogue is someone who will preach doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seabhcan View Post
    My understanding is that the state is liable for all the loans made to Anglo, and all deposits. So there is very little cost difference between closing it and keeping it open...

    But if it is kept functioning for another 14 months or so, the state guarantee on inter-bank lending to Anglo expires...
    Bank weighing up debt options - The Irish Times - Wed, Jun 10, 2009

    Not all of them -

    Concerns that the Government could force losses on some investors holding up to €4.9 billion of subordinated bonds drove up Anglo’s credit defaults swap rates, a proxy measure of risk, last week
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by goosebump View Post
    Except that the Guarantee is conceptual liability which a wind down would make an actual liability.

    The Guarantee exists so that the likelihood of its execution is reduced. The idea is to avoid the exposure thorough recapitalisation rather than dealing with it. Obviously, at some point, recapitalisation may become more expensive, but if we get to that point, someone else will be running the country.

    The Guarantee is driving the costs of borrowing up for us.

    Anglo Irish is a failed, dead bank. We are paying all of its substantial running costs and salaries and it's dragging down international perception of Ireland as a nest of conniving cronies. We now find in addition to the other scandals that an unspecified number of staff have bad loans out.

    Anglo board considered wind-down of bank - chairman - The Irish Times - Wed, Jun 10, 2009

    Senator Shane Ross said the increase on loans that were not being repaid, from €2.5 billion last September to €23.6 billion in March, showed the older figures were “pure fantasy” and that Mr O’Connor was partly responsible as he was on the board at the time.

    Mr O’Connor said the situation became “very much worse”.

    Mr Ross queried why Mr O’Connor, who was appointed a non-executive director of Anglo in June 2008, did not resign with the rest of the non-executive directors following Anglo’s nationalisation.

    Mr O’Connor responded that he had been asked to stay on the board by the Minister for Finance.
    The deposits are going anyway - a third since September and a third of what is left is ECB loans
    Meanwhile, the problem of how to keep Anglo liquid is still there. It will just keep on borrowing from the European Central Bank (ECB) to replace deposits. The ECB currently provides one-third of Anglo’s deposits and this figure will just keep on rising.

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    Both the insane Guarantee and the insane nationalisation of Anglo need to be repudiated and reversed ASAP, or Anglo will bring the State down with it.

    Letting Anglo go bust and taking the necessary prosecutions for reckless trading and/or corruption will do wonders for our international reputation. We're seen as a nation of gangsters at this stage. We need a strong dose of the rule of law and accountability.

    It will work out much cheaper in the long run and make it easire to raise future debt if we are seen to be seriously tackling the underlying problems. Doing the Three Monkeys act and pretending it'll all be grand will lead us to default.

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    Lenihan is a complete idiot.

    Anglo will never see these loans again. The money is safely deposited in the Cayman Islands and places like that, and that includes loans to the directors.

    The reason why the loans to the directors are 'impaired' is because the money has been sent offshore.

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    O'Connor does not favour the Nama option for Anlgo Irish. Is this "Boardspeak" for winding up ?

    We did look to see what would happen if the bank was wound up," O'Connor said. "We recognise the difficulties, we are very concerned." "We are trying to stabilise and de-risk the bank." "It is a challenge, it will be difficult."

    O'Connor's glum assessment sent the yield premium investors demand to hold 10-year Irish government bonds to 210 basis points versus benchmark German Bunds, its widest spread since late April, according to Reuters charts. [ID:nL91036094] Dublin will likely have to borrow more to pump up to 4 billion euros into Anglo after a fresh wave of bad loans pushed the lender to the worst loss in the country's banking history last month. [ID:nLS473002]

    Another bailout may also be required if Anglo's stress scenarios, which point to an additional impairement charge of between 1.5-3.5 billion euros, emerge.
    This is how it's seen from abroad -


    A BOTTOMLESS PIT

    "The comments from Anglo Irish's chairman certainly make it look like a bottomless pit, coming a week after the Irish government pledged 4 billion euros for the group," said Marc Ostwald, a bond analyst at Monument Securities in London.

    "But what is really driving the wider Irish spreads, and indeed others in the euro zone today, is the general antipathy to peripheral sovereigns after the ratings downgrade by S&P on Monday. Anything with Irish in it is now seen as a negative," he added.

    Standard & Poor's cut Ireland's sovereign credit rating to AA and kept it on negative outlook on Monday in the aftermath of Anglo's losses and warned that it could reduce it again if the banking sector's loan losses accelerate faster than expected. Rival agency Moody's, which still rates Ireland AAA, told Reuters on Tuesday it will conclude its review of the ranking after a visit to Dublin in coming weeks. [ID:nL9636879]

    O'Connor said he would prefer to see a fast sale of Anglo Irish or some of its loan book rather than a potentially lengthy stabilisation process as a stand-alone bank.

    "It could be that we would attract investment into the bank, we could sell the bank or parts of the bank or ... the bank could be part of a merger or consolidation of a wider banking group," he said.

    O'Connor said Anglo would issue a statement later on Tuesday on liability management. He did not go into further details.


    Dublin was forced to take over the country's No. 3 bank in January after customer and shareholder confidence collapsed in the face of a string of scandals. Its spectacular fall highlighted how crony capitalism, property speculation and reckless lending partly fuelled Ireland's heady growth and accelerated its decline.[ID:nLH729143]
    Contrary to goosebump's suggestion O'Connor is clearly looking for the fastest possible wind down of Anglo Irish. Everyone knows that there is no possibility of running it as a viable bank - it has no banking infrastructure: it was just a pyramid scheme.


    The cost of taking on the loans will lead to a significant jump in Irish debt levels to likely 100 percent plus of Gross Domestic Product in 2011 from 59 percent predicted for this year.
    Lenihan and Cowen said that the Guarantee would cost us nothing and goosebump is still trying to perpetuate that patent nonsense.

    His claim that we can't wind up Anglo Irish because it would affect confidence in Ireland at this stage looks barmy. The uncertainty over Anglo Irish and the visible failure to deal with it and the crooks who ran it is causing Ireland enormous financial and economic damage.

    UPDATE 1-Anglo Irish warns stabilisation will be difficult | Industries | Financial Services & Real Estate | Reuters

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    *is quietly pleased at all the fine work being done on the Anglo threads completely demolishing the ridiculous blether and downright lies of goosebump and SPN*

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