Argumentation ethics: the ultimate justification of capitalism over socialism?

[fiannafailure]

As S of I would be private company owned by the public, not state owned, any ideas on how the profits set aside for local people could be administered, local gov, trusts or ......

[sarahj]

As S of I would be private company owned by the public, not state owned, any ideas on how the profits set aside for local people could be administered, local gov, trusts or ......

Plenty of them! Have you checked out the participatory budgetting system used in Porto Alegre that has spread throughout the world in a v short space of time...

Participatory budgeting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[fiannafailure]

No but I will, Thank you, now back to the crowds?, could something along the same lines not be proposed as an end to the impasse

[sarahj]

No but I will, Thank you, now back to the crowds?, could something along the same lines not be proposed as an end to the impasse

Yeah course it could. The establishment of more and better democratic mechanisms ANYWHERE will help solve conflicts.

Democracy enables education on different points of view, real discussion and problem-solving and a feeling that the best solution has been reached. It is only when people feel that something is "unfair" or they have been "hard done by" that they will go outside official mechanisms.

[fiannafailure]

Yeah course it could. The establishment of more and better democratic mechanisms ANYWHERE will help solve conflicts.

Democracy enables education on different points of view, real discussion and problem-solving and a feeling that the best solution has been reached. It is only when people feel that something is "unfair" or they have been "hard done by" that they will go outside official mechanisms.

So lets get started doing it not talking about it, perhaps TV3 or RTE would air a coherent proposal to shell and the gov. PM me if I can help

[20000miles]

If the resources are USED by people but not considered owned, then you have stolen the ability to use them from those people. Those people were sharing and didn't feel any need to appropriate the resources for private use until the first person "claimed" them.

The first person to "claim" any resource is a thief.

To even consider a concept such as theft you have to consider ownership. The person who appropriates unowned resources is making noone worse off, as others were free to appropriate them themselves - but chose not to.

[sarahj]

To even consider a concept such as theft you have to consider ownership. The person who appropriates unowned resources is making noone worse off, as others were free to appropriate them themselves - but chose not to.

Chose not to because ownership was understood as unnecessary...until someone came along and took it away.

You only need property rights if other people are going to try to take property.

[20000miles]

You need property rights to prevent interposonal conflict.

This was the point of my first post after all!

[sarahj]

You need property rights to prevent interposonal conflict.

This was the point of my first post after all!

No - property rights enhance the levels of interpersonal conflict.

COOPERATION (by its very definition) prevents interpersonal conflict.

[Christel]

Haven't you seen the gardai getting involved in the Shell fiasco in the west? Or in Tara?

These came to mind, yes.

But why are guardi involved technically? To protect property rights, or to make sure piece is kept as at demonstrations, marches, and intervene when they feel it's necessary; or for what exact reason?
I don't know really.