On Liveline

[myksav]

No breaking of the law here. A business loan application is not like a personal loan application. There were no 'employers details to fill out. I resent your implication that I broke the law.

You did break the law, by stealing internet bandwidth by useing a hotel's WiFi system without paying for it. A relatively minor offense but still an offense.

[TradCat]

If it's free wi-fi and you didn't hack into it then it's not a crime surely. No more than picking up a radio signal.

[Cato]

You did break the law, by stealing internet bandwidth by useing a hotel's WiFi system without paying for it. A relatively minor offense but still an offense.

Well, I'd have to plead guilty to that one. However, bluefish was alleging that I broke the law in order to get a loan. That, I am not guilty of.

In mitigation of the offense I plead guilty of, I should say that I am a (semi) regular of that business.

[Gryire]

Hotel Wi-Fi is free to all its patrons. Not just the people who stay in the hotel. It is also free to people who frequent the bar and any other part of the hotel, and by implication the car park.

so what law was broken !

[bluefish]

No breaking of the law here. A business loan application is not like a personal loan application. There were no 'employers details to fill out. I resent your implication that I broke the law.




Are you aware of the concept of Limited Liability? How exactly would the taxpayer pick up the tab?

Are you seriously telling me that you was unemployed, and the bank gave your new limited company a bank loan!

My Gosh, I thought the banks had learnt there lessons!

The facts are, I'm guessing you put down a lot of capital, maybe you used a home to guarantee your loan, and the fact that you mentioned you had a friend who helped you says to me that your not the average Irish person who has become unemployed!

I see you failed to address my other points such as people not being able to steal bandwidth from hotels who can only afford a desktop.

Hi All,

I have been out of work since July 2007, when the company I worked for shut down. I have not claimed any benefits yet, and have been supporting myself on my savings/overdraft, and a little bit of entreprenuering. My pot is now empty however, and I am in the process of making a claim for jobseekers allowance.

Look at this guy

I wish to start my own business, and have a great business plan written. The banks wont help due to being unemployed, and overdrawn, but I was wondering if there was any government based grants/loans that might help me out. I would only need around €6500 to get me started, and should need to employ 2/3 local staff within the first 6/12 months of trading, and hence putting more than just myself back into work. I would be more than willing to employ people from FAS or any other government based/backed training/work seeking initiatives.

Surely there must be some sort of help/support out there for me

Business start up grants/loans ??? - boards.ie

How far did you have to drive to get wifi at a hotel?

I find it hilarious that you suggesting that when you were unemployed you drove around in your car looking for a wifi hotspot!

Most likely unbelievable, or are you really suggesting that upon loosing your job one of the first things you decided to cut was your internet broadband, which would be a vital tool to help you find new work.

What happened at night, when you felt you need a little information on your start up ideas? Did you jump into your car and head of to the Wifi hotel?

Im sorry but I just dont find your claims credible, and even if they are, I believe you to be the exception rather than the rule.

But if it is true good luck with your business.

[bluefish]

Hotel Wi-Fi is free to all its patrons. Not just the people who stay in the hotel. It is also free to people who frequent the bar and any other part of the hotel, and by implication the car park.

so what law was broken !

Someone parking their car to avail of someone else wifi are not patrons.


Someone in a bar, and other parts of a hotel are most likely there spending money and conducting business.

Something the hotel encourages.

Im pretty sure they dont encourage the Irish Unemployed coming onto their Private property, taking up paying customers parking spaces, to use their bandwidth to check out FAS or IrishJobs.

Maybe im wrong, but I doubt it.

Why dont you call your nearest hotel who offers WIFI, and ask them if its ok that you park up and borrow there bandwidth whilst your search for a job in there car park. Whilst you at it see if they will run an extension lead for you as well, they may chuck in free electricity to power your laptops!

[Cato]

Bluefish,

I had about 15% of the capital I needed. And where did I say a friend helped me. I had to pay the two guys who 'helped' me. Worth the money though.

The home was already mortgaged to the hilt and probably in negative equity.

I never said that I used the hotel's wifi while unemployed. Merely that back in the day, when I couldn't afford it, I made use of it.

Also, I bought the laptop, some years ago, while in my last job. Still had it after I was made redundant. Turned out to be a good investment. (It's a Mac too - god I hate PCs now)

And yes I'm pretty exceptional. I'm a very aggressive and high achieving kind of guy. I'm also a very good sales man. It's a little about self belief and the ability to take a lot of 'no's before I got a 'YES!'

[bluefish]

=Cato;1658032]Bluefish,

I had about 15% of the capital I needed. And where did I say a friend helped me. I had to pay the two guys who 'helped' me. Worth the money though.

So how much did you borrow? I really cant believe the bank lent your NEW LTD company a hundred thousands if you only put in say a 15,000!

So you had the cash for 2 Accountant types to help you with the bank. How many of the Irish on the dole can afford to do this?

The home was already mortgaged to the hilt and probably in negative equity.

So when you were unemployed did you not pay a penny on your mortgage?
Im guessing you did, so TAXPAYERS funded you mortgage. Should I as a taxpayer have my taxes used to keep your overpriced house?

My point is, that you have bills that needed paying, if the dole was cut chances are you would have used to finances to pay for your bills, instead of having the funds to invest into a new business.

I never said that I used the hotel's wifi while unemployed. Merely that back in the day, when I couldn't afford it, I made use of it.

So why bring it up?

I said people on the dole would need an internet connection to help them find alternative work.

You came back by claiming that you used a hotels wifi connection.

So what you are now saying is that when you had employment, you still sponged of a hotel for their WIFI?

And you still havent addressed the issue of people who have desktops etc.

Also, I bought the laptop, some years ago, while in my last job. Still had it after I was made redundant. Turned out to be a good investment. (It's a Mac too - god I hate PCs now)

But not everyone can afford laptops. Especially if there now on the dole.

And yes I'm pretty exceptional. I'm a very aggressive and high achieving kind of guy. I'm also a very good sales man. It's a little about self belief and the ability to take a lot of 'no's before I got a 'YES!

Well im glad for you. Im glad that you have achieved your ideas, and I hope you continue to succeed.

But please dont think that everyone on the dole can reach the same heights.

You had money to invest, and money to pay advisers.

That is not your typical welfare claimaint.

The dole does need to be reformed, but not yet. We need to give people a real choice, and that means having jobs for them to go to.

If they then choose not to, then yes welfare should be cut.

But we also need Job Centres, and have people signing on every 2 weeks at a job centre, offering help and advice. Instead of leaving people to struggle on there own.

Above all, we need REAL cuts in living.

Ireland is too expensive to live in.

Sure the UK may only pay £60 per week for there dole, but then the UK is cheaper to live in.

[collinsite81]

When times were good the dole should have been scrapped, now is not the time to start tampering with it. It's a joke, 204 euro a week for doing SFA.

How can you tell what the entirety of unemployed people are doing everyday?
Some of us are using our time constructively.

If you were to lose your job and be in danger of defaulting on your mortgage with 2 small children would you think €204 was a lot of money?

[Cato]

So how much did you borrow? I really cant believe the bank lent your NEW LTD company a hundred thousands if you only put in say a 15,000!

So you had the cash for 2 Accountant types to help you with the bank. How many of the Irish on the dole can afford to do this?

Err... I already told you that I paid for it using my redundancy money. It's that unusual to get a redundancy payment, is it? (By the way it was statutory with a €500 ex gratia payment)

And yes, the bank did (after a lot of no's from other banks) give me the loan, and no, I'm not going to tell you for how much. I should also mention that I was involved in my last job with negotiating loans for millions for the company. So I was not without experience.

So when you were unemployed did you not pay a penny on your mortgage?
Im guessing you did, so TAXPAYERS funded you mortgage. Should I as a taxpayer have my taxes used to keep your overpriced house?

My point is, that you have bills that needed paying, if the dole was cut chances are you would have used to finances to pay for your bills, instead of having the funds to invest into a new business.

Do I have to mention my redundancy payments again? And we took a three month break form our mortgage. This is also why people ought to have saved through the boom.

I said people on the dole would need an internet connection to help them find alternative work.

You came back by claiming that you used a hotels wifi connection.

So what you are now saying is that when you had employment, you still sponged of a hotel for their WIFI?

And you still havent addressed the issue of people who have desktops etc.

You seem to be obsesing a little on the whole internet connection thing. Do you believe that everyone on the dole ought to receive a free desktop and internet connection if they don't already have it. If it is as necessary as you say than surely this should be so.

You are aware that there is fairly poor broadband availability across the country?

My point about the hotel story was that it you need something bad enough then you'll find a way. And yes, I cannot sleep at night knowing that I used up some of their bandwidth.

The dole does need to be reformed, but not yet. We need to give people a real choice, and that means having jobs for them to go to.

If they then choose not to, then yes welfare should be cut.

But we also need Job Centres, and have people signing on every 2 weeks at a job centre, offering help and advice. Instead of leaving people to struggle on there own.

So we are broadly in agreement then. Our only disagreement would be the timing of the reform.

Above all, we need REAL cuts in living.

What are your proposals for doing this?

I'm doing my best. The prices in our store are quite reasonable.