Dole is too generous...

[Silvio Dante]

€200+ stay in bed money is quite frankly ludicrous... End of...

[hopi watcher]

In Todays Irish Independent:

"OUR generous social welfare system is encouraging more people to stay on the dole, a major new report warns."

I wonder how many people recently laid off would agree.

If you insist on reading the Indo, you will remain confused. For anyone to suggest that a sane rational person would opt to survive on €200 per week in the presence of any other alternative is nuts or just simply intent on egging on a wayward government to cut the allowance so as to protect the wealth of the greed merchants. This type of article is actually suggested by Anto himself and the drones that work for him dutifully oblige. Of course should social unrest occur following the further impoverishment of a large swathe of the population, Anto will slip away to his off-shore tax shelter

[atlantic]

Young bucks and young wans should do 2 days a week.

I think people on the dole should have to do something within the community, pick up litter, supervise at a community centre, participate in tidy towns or a sports club etc.

[Propforward]

Very well said Joe could not agree with you more, lets hear from people on the dole through no fault of their own, and see how they are coping?

Well i was recently let go from the PS where i was on a temp contract.
I am now on the dole so here are my views.

204 quid a week is too much to be giving everybody.
It gives people the ability to choose not to work.
204 quid a week is not the extent of it - there are people getting rent supplements, child supplements, deserted wives allowance etc etc.
i was on the dole in 2004 for 2 months and got 117 - wtf did this 80% increase come from in 5 years

One thing i have noticed is that you do not need to prove your identity when collecting the dole... you just hand your sw card to the post office guy - sign a reciept and get your scratch... they do not ask for a photo id or even check the signature. Its no wonder there is so much welfare fraud in the country

Before i go on i believe i am a socialist at heart - but i believe that people should be incentivised to work and not given free money for doing nothing. It should be hard for you to get the dole

Some broad ideas on how i think it should work
a small portion of all PRSI should be dedicated to providing a parachute fund for people who lose their job to provide a little extra in the 3month aftermath of losing their job
say up to 500 (having worked up at least 52 weeks prior)

everyone who has not and and who has exhausted the 3 months parachute should get a small stipend of say 50-70 quid cash and another 40 quid per head in vouchers for supermarkets,
Welfare recipients should be given travel vouchers to allow them to use buses, trains etc
People on welfare should be made to produce evidence that they are looking for suitable work on a 2 monthly basis - i.e. rejection letters
The entire social welfare system should be means tested and not just on income but on material wealth and savings
Social Welfare should make bi annual trips to all recipients to examine and investigate lifestyle... for example when visiting a house of a social welfare recipient have they got 2 cars in the drive, do they have a 40' television, have they just got a dog etc to determine if their wealth increased?

It may sould draconian but i think we p1ss too much away on welfare and more importantly we curb the enthusiasm and desire for people to get to work.

[Proposition Joe]

If you insist on reading the Indo, you will remain confused. For anyone to suggest that a sane rational person would opt to survive on €200 per week in the presence of any other alternative is nuts or just simply intent on egging on a wayward government to cut the allowance so as to protect the wealth of the greed merchants.

Does that make Silvio a greed merchant?

[hopi watcher]

Some broad ideas on how i think it should work
a small portion of all PRSI should be dedicated to providing a parachute fund for people who lose their job to provide a little extra in the 3month aftermath of losing their job
say up to 500 (having worked up at least 52 weeks prior)

everyone who has not and and who has exhausted the 3 months parachute should get a small stipend of say 50-70 quid cash and another 40 quid per head in vouchers for supermarkets,
Welfare recipients should be given travel vouchers to allow them to use buses, trains etc
People on welfare should be made to produce evidence that they are looking for suitable work on a 2 monthly basis - i.e. rejection letters
The entire social welfare system should be means tested and not just on income but on material wealth and savings
Social Welfare should make bi annual trips to all recipients to examine and investigate lifestyle... for example when visiting a house of a social welfare recipient have they got 2 cars in the drive, do they have a 40' television, have they just got a dog etc to determine if their wealth increased?

It may sould draconian but i think we p1ss too much away on welfare and more importantly we curb the enthusiasm and desire for people to get to work.

You forgot to mention compulsary wearing of the yellow star. €200 a week a "curb on enthusiam and desire for people to work"!!! Jaysus wept.

[diablo]

Well i was recently let go from the PS where i was on a temp contract.
I am now on the dole so here are my views.

204 quid a week is too much to be giving everybody.
It gives people the ability to choose not to work.
204 quid a week is not the extent of it - there are people getting rent supplements, child supplements, deserted wives allowance etc etc.
i was on the dole in 2004 for 2 months and got 117 - wtf did this 80% increase come from in 5 years

One thing i have noticed is that you do not need to prove your identity when collecting the dole... you just hand your sw card to the post office guy - sign a reciept and get your scratch... they do not ask for a photo id or even check the signature. Its no wonder there is so much welfare fraud in the country

Before i go on i believe i am a socialist at heart - but i believe that people should be incentivised to work and not given free money for doing nothing. It should be hard for you to get the dole

Some broad ideas on how i think it should work
a small portion of all PRSI should be dedicated to providing a parachute fund for people who lose their job to provide a little extra in the 3month aftermath of losing their job
say up to 500 (having worked up at least 52 weeks prior)

everyone who has not and and who has exhausted the 3 months parachute should get a small stipend of say 50-70 quid cash and another 40 quid per head in vouchers for supermarkets,
Welfare recipients should be given travel vouchers to allow them to use buses, trains etc
People on welfare should be made to produce evidence that they are looking for suitable work on a 2 monthly basis - i.e. rejection letters
The entire social welfare system should be means tested and not just on income but on material wealth and savings
Social Welfare should make bi annual trips to all recipients to examine and investigate lifestyle... for example when visiting a house of a social welfare recipient have they got 2 cars in the drive, do they have a 40' television, have they just got a dog etc to determine if their wealth increased?

It may sould draconian but i think we p1ss too much away on welfare and more importantly we curb the enthusiasm and desire for people to get to work.

Agree with a lot of that, particularly the parachute idea. Basically, SW should not be a lifestyle choice as it is for many long term sw recipients.

[Propforward]

You forgot to mention compulsary wearing of the yellow star. €200 a week a "curb on enthusiam and desire for people to work"!!! Jaysus wept.

I hardly think paying people less for doing nothing equates to the systematic extermination of the jews.
Jaysus (himself a socialist) weeps at the social disintegration and incentivisation of a system that exists to manitain a placated underclass.
204 quid is not enough to live ok on but it is enough to not bother your arse working for 40 hours a week to get 250 per week
But then you have nothing to say other than you disagree.

[selfemployedmar]

Well i was recently let go from the PS where i was on a temp contract.
I am now on the dole so here are my views.

204 quid a week is too much to be giving everybody.
It gives people the ability to choose not to work.
204 quid a week is not the extent of it - there are people getting rent supplements, child supplements, deserted wives allowance etc etc.
i was on the dole in 2004 for 2 months and got 117 - wtf did this 80% increase come from in 5 years

One thing i have noticed is that you do not need to prove your identity when collecting the dole... you just hand your sw card to the post office guy - sign a reciept and get your scratch... they do not ask for a photo id or even check the signature. Its no wonder there is so much welfare fraud in the country

Before i go on i believe i am a socialist at heart - but i believe that people should be incentivised to work and not given free money for doing nothing. It should be hard for you to get the dole

Some broad ideas on how i think it should work
a small portion of all PRSI should be dedicated to providing a parachute fund for people who lose their job to provide a little extra in the 3month aftermath of losing their job
say up to 500 (having worked up at least 52 weeks prior)

everyone who has not and and who has exhausted the 3 months parachute should get a small stipend of say 50-70 quid cash and another 40 quid per head in vouchers for supermarkets,
Welfare recipients should be given travel vouchers to allow them to use buses, trains etc
People on welfare should be made to produce evidence that they are looking for suitable work on a 2 monthly basis - i.e. rejection letters
The entire social welfare system should be means tested and not just on income but on material wealth and savings
Social Welfare should make bi annual trips to all recipients to examine and investigate lifestyle... for example when visiting a house of a social welfare recipient have they got 2 cars in the drive, do they have a 40' television, have they just got a dog etc to determine if their wealth increased?

It may sould draconian but i think we p1ss too much away on welfare and more importantly we curb the enthusiasm and desire for people to get to work.

Joe, I agree with some of your points.

Thankfully I have never been on the dole, my business has not been great since early last year, and I am engineering/ manufacturing..
Unfortunately I had to lay off most of my staff all but four..
I have never been on the dole, I would imagine it has to be humiliating to have to sign on, when you genuinely want to work and no jobs there.

Many times in the busy period, I contacted Fas etc for job vacancies that I had.
Most of the people they sent me did not want the job, "tell fas I called but I dont want it etc. They did get a lot of benefits, and seemed to be out much more socially than I was, and here was me working 24/7 to hold on to my staff.

On the other scale I am now seeing a lot of poverty, in the young, as they overspent, high mortgages etc, now on the dole, and they are depressed, genuinely, cant live and at risk of loosing everything and no one to buy/sell their assets to.
I am myself inundated with CV's from highly qualified people..

People are saying on here that NI people are living on 60 Stg,, however along with that they get free dental, free doctor, presriptions 5 Stg, if you do a training course and complete exams, they give you a bonus for completing each module.
The same goes with kids at school they are given money as incentives, to have them finish their GCSE's and A's levels.
Exam fees are free.
Children's Allowance is weekly.
No charge at hospital emergency.
Remember also they registered on dole in NI, and registered up here with Revenue for work, they did not need C2 Clearance and got money here too.
That net is closing with the Reverse Charging Vat & C2 Clearance card which is now like the passport, can't be copied.


This is not the case here, so if you loose your job here and have kids, you are means tested. I know a person who has 204€ per wk on dole, redundant since xmas, huge mortgage, went to doctor/ chemist, here and cost 130€, put a moratorium on loan until August..

Means tested is the only way, however the jobs situation does continue to spiral, it is a cut throat industry out there right now in the fight to survive in business..

And our Public Sector high wage bill and pension continues to increase

[Brenny]

Aindriu said


Quote:
Originally Posted by radical or redundant
some people earn more on the dole than they would on minimum wage.

How the hell do you arrive at that conclusion?

€204.33 PW = €10625.16 PA, hardly the minimum wage level!

I would love to see those who wrote the report try and live on €204.33 PW!!

If you combine the 200 from the dole with other welfare payments such as rent allowance, to name just one, the accumulative total is just too much. There needs to be a substantial gap between income from the minumum wage and life on the welfare. Also it seems that the longer you're receiving welfare the easier it gets. A guy I know who was out of work for 5 years was officially declared to be 'disbled' and was able to draw disability allowance.

By the way it looks like I'm going to be on the dole myself pretty soon and I have no doubt about being able to live on it till I get something.