We need to cancel all Debt in Ireland

[bluefish]

Everyone seems to agree that to solve some of Ireland's problems we need to become more competitive to do business.

We need to cut wages and Incomes by 20-30% for everyone including those on Welfare.

But we also need to cut all bills such as Food, and the ESB by 20-30% also.

But if this occurs, and likely to happen under the IMF, we will still be left with personal debt.

This is contracted under law, and things such as mortgages and loans and credit cards will fall into arrears as people will have no means in which to pay these debts by no fault of their own.

In my opinion if Ireland is to loose its wealth by a 20-30% we will need to see personal debt hit with this sort of reduction also, or the debt wiped out all together.

I understand for some, its hardly fair that they never took out debt, so why should others get away Scott free, but you have to understand that this is not the fault of the people, and it unless this happens, cuttings peoples incomes will just create more defaults, and add to the ever decreasing crisis faced in Ireland.

The way to do this is to have the government take over all debt, and actually seek bankruptcy of the nation.

Then the IMF will need to come in and provide us loans to start the country going again, with a 20-30% cut across the board in everything.

[Digout]

Incorrect, those foolish enough to take on debt should be made pay it back.

[Watcher1]

Everyone seems to agree that to solve some of Ireland's problems we need to become more competitive to do business.

We need to cut wages and Incomes by 20-30% for everyone including those on Welfare.

But we also need to cut all bills such as Food, and the ESB by 20-30% also.

But if this occurs, and likely to happen under the IMF, we will still be left with personal debt.

This is contracted under law, and things such as mortgages and loans and credit cards will fall into arrears as people will have no means in which to pay these debts by no fault of their own.

In my opinion if Ireland is to loose its wealth by a 20-30% we will need to see personal debt hit with this sort of reduction also, or the debt wiped out all together.

I understand for some, its hardly fair that they never took out debt, so why should others get away Scott free, but you have to understand that this is not the fault of the people, and it unless this happens, cuttings peoples incomes will just create more defaults, and add to the ever decreasing crisis faced in Ireland.

The way to do this is to have the government take over all debt, and actually seek bankruptcy of the nation.

Then the IMF will need to come in and provide us loans to start the country going again, with a 20-30% cut across the board in everything.

What? It's not their fault for taking on debt? Give me a break. We are all grown ups here, yeah?

[bluefish]

What? It's not their fault for taking on debt? Give me a break. We are all grown ups here, yeah?

When you go to the bank for a mortgage they ask you to provide proof of your earnings.

You do so.

They also write to your employer to ask how safe your job is etc.

You Should also consider your earnings and ask yourself if you can afford such.

However its not your fault if after all this the government/IMF come along and slash your income by 20-30%!

If you accept that everyones income has to be cut by this amount, how will people be able to pay their bills?

It will result in more defaults and continue us in the cycle of debt.

The only way out of this mess is to cut all debt and start over.

Unfair for some, but what else can we do?

Its the only way forward.

[feargach]

But if this occurs, and likely to happen under the IMF, we will still be left with personal debt.

Finally, somebody spots the flaw in the "cut everyone's wages to make things OK again" plan.

What? It's not their fault for taking on debt? Give me a break. We are all grown ups here, yeah?

Well my nephews aren't grown-ups. Neither are the Down's Syndrome adults I do voluntary work with, and both sets of people will suffer horribly if this economy-crushing debt isn't sharply relieved.

[cactusflower]

When you go to the bank for a mortgage they ask you to provide proof of your earnings.

You do so.

They also write to your employer to ask how safe your job is etc.

You Should also consider your earnings and ask yourself if you can afford such.

However its not your fault if after all this the government/IMF come along and slash your income by 20-30%!

If you accept that everyones income has to be cut by this amount, how will people be able to pay their bills?

It will result in more defaults and continue us in the cycle of debt.

The only way out of this mess is to cut all debt and start over.

Unfair for some, but what else can we do?

Its the only way forward.

I have a lot of interest in the idea of default. Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel Prizewinner and former IMF man, has said it can be far from the worst option for a bankrupt state.

The Bolsheviks defaulted in 1917 - they said weren't going to pay the vast debts of the Tsar, but they would repay all new loans like clockwork. They sent Trotsky to London and America to negotiate bank loans. He had some success in the US. According to Hammer, a US businessman who dealt ith them, they were good for the loans. Youngdan still hasn't forgiven the the American bankers for lending to the reds.

I think we should be seriously looking at the implications of default, and how to carry it out without losing sovereignty. It may turn out to be the only option.

[KingKane]

Absolutely not! We can't expect more sensible behaviour in future if people get off scotfree from making reckless decisions.

Some system of making the repayments more manageable or spreading the burden more over time is one thing but wholesale debt forgiveness is not on.

[cavok]

MAN UP YOU PUSSIE

if you signed for it and drew it down the MAN UP and repay it

PAY YOUR DEBTS

[X-ray]

This is crazy stuff.
Look capitalism works by those taking risks get the profits.
If the risk fails you lose your money. Its too late to change the rules half way into the game. You borrowed, you lose.
Its your debt and your asset. If we share the debt can I live in your spare room then?
Now I feel very sorry for young people badly caught and I think many others are to blame for leading them there.
But I am not paying back the international debts of anyone else, its your house and your car, you can pay or make your case to the bank.
As mentioned above this is the reason the whole "lets just cut everything by 30%" or lets "just role back benchmarking" doesnt work.
I am afraid alot of money is owned and it will have to be repaid or the people involved will have to become very poor. There are no other options. We dont even have the power to cancel debt as it is not Irish debt.
Cutting debt is not going to happen and if it does we are Cuba. Its totally time to grow spuds in the garden because nobody will lend us the lawnmower ever again.

Would somebody please make a reasonable graduated suggestion that might work on the planet earth. These ideas are just so worrying, do people really think they are options?

[Sucker Punch]

What? It's not their fault for taking on debt? Give me a break. We are all grown ups here, yeah?

Are the Banks grown up? Why don't they and their investors hang on to their debt instead of passing it on the the public purse, they are (were) after all highy efficent private sector no?

Why do we have to insist upon coporate welfare for the banks while refusing the capatisist rules of the game... eg if they maket decides your surpus to requirements then you take the hit.