Good Sensible Post there.Originally Posted by LeftOfCentre
Jacko on the Radio now saying the Gov could buy out the Banks for a fraction of these Billions we would need to borrow for NAMA.
I would imagine the reason the Gov are holding back on Nationalisation is that the levels of debts they are owed or owe themselves in turn is a huge Hole
and that Mr Cowen or Mr lenihan have not thrown a plumbline into that Black Lagoon yet ...
Europa Conventus Delenda Est
Err commie, the article says in effect "stockbroker economists employed ultimately by failed banks say everything ok, while independent no-axe-to-grind economists say otherwise."
CIF man Tom Parlon gives his tuppence worth in the Independent today:
State's bad bank is doomed to fail, says builders' chief - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ieTHE State's newly formed bad bank, Nama, won't be operational for more than a year, is fraught with difficulties and could be "doomed to failure" before it begins, according to construction chief Tom Parlon.
Mr Parlon, director general of the Construction Industry Federation (CIF) also said that the Nama fire sale of lands could leave Ireland exposed to what he described as "foreign vulture capitalists".
Mr Parlon also lashed out at the lack of consultation by the Government before the Budget and the lack of stimulus measures in it; and he said nationalisation of the country's top two banks is "extremely likely" if Nama is to work. Speaking to the Sunday Independent, Mr Parlon, said the whole Nama issue is surrounded by confusion and is lacking a clear vision of how it will work....
"Nama will only work if we get the best price for each site. But we will have a fire sale. We will have a flooding of the market. Then you will have a situation of foreign vulture capitalists coming in and making profits off the back of Irish sites and taking the money overseas...
He also was critical of the banks' refusal to date to be realistic about the valuations of land banks on their books.
"Banks have stonewalled our guys, they are not writing down their bad debts.They gave a figure on their bad debts but the dogs in the street know it's much more than that. The banks are in denial."
He goes on to say that Peter Bacon "doesn't have the skills" or experience to run NAMA.
AN interesting perspective from the CIF which goes against Labour's view that this is a "builders' bailout". Whatever my opinions on his interests are though, he's right in the fact that the details of NAMA are very confused at the moment.
This means that the govt's plan in the budget of selling this new salvationary institution to us is somehwat thwarted by the fact that, well, they're not really sure how and if it's going to work yet. They're throwing the name around as if it's been in existence for years and is something we should put our trust in, they've almost created a cult around it. I can hear the people chanting now - NA-MA! NA-MA!
A balence view seems to be given on this link below.
The Irish Economy
Written by Paul Krugman
Time for the Irish Goverment to do the honorable thing and go. If thay have any honour left.
Right. Was talking to assorted Politico's, cross party, this evening at our usual Sunday evening outside smoke-fest. It is reported that NAMA is merely an idea to date and that, actually, the practicalities of the orginisation are to come before Cabinet on Tuesday. Now, when you think of it, thats rather amazing. No detail, no idea, and the monkeys with spanners on Tuesday are to investigate the back of the television!! It's rather frightening.
PS. Bacon is, informally, indicating that he will, under no circumstances, head up the new agency.
Squeeky bum time so Corelli.
Mick Mc Carthy's musings on arses and industrial machinery come to mind.
Was anyone under the impression that NAMA was anything other than the product of a redeye Tuesday night session, complete with Wednesday afternoon hangovers, by the inner circle?
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So it seems the Goverment have no backers.
No costing.
And yet thay are having a meeting on Tuesday about?
Time for the Irish Goverment to do the honorable thing and go. If thay have any honour left.
So lets see if I have this right. The banks will off load bad property loans and replace them with bad government bonds. Their vaults will still be full of worthless paper.
Lets just end this thing now and let the house of cards fall and start a new one.
Why are we trying save them?
OK. Here it is. Sorry for ending the debate.
We spent a fortune we didn't have. We all did. There's no point whinging or expressing the anger of your members or blaming Fianna Fail.
It's time to act like an adult.
If we ever want to borrow money again we can't just forget about the old banks and their debts and start a few new ones.
So NAMA was dreamt up to keep the banks going through their current difficulties.
As far as the bill to the taxpayer goes, it doesn't matter what NAMA pays for the toxic loans it's buying from the banks.
The state (in return for shares) will have to provide the banks with whatever else they need.
The debts are enormous. The state will end up handing over a fortune and getting huge shareholdings in each bank.
This isn't much different from nationalisation and, where it is different, it's better.
The gang of twenty's main objection to NAMA is that the state won't get all the windfall when the banks recover.
A state run bank won't recover.
A publicly quoted bank will be run efficiently, be answerable to the markets and, if there is a recovery, the state will own most of the shares.
And what about other shareholders profiting from all this public investment?
If you think it's such a sure thing then buy some bank shares yourself. They're as cheap as chips.
Of course we're not going to recover. We can't possibly absorb this kind of debt. It's a controlled flight in to terrain.
We're doomed.
"A publicly quoted bank will be run efficiently" - are you sure on that?
If this were the case, would we even be having this debate?
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