Indo: Dole is better, Work = 35k Welfare = 47k

[YesSireeeBob]

I love this myth.
This persons friend may be better of but if he is typical i will eat my dole money.

I get €204 a week, thats it. (except child allowance which we all get) My income after tax has dropped from the 550 -700 a week i used to bring home-to 204. But our fixed outgoings remain exactly the same. My wife earns over €30.000 A year so As far as I know we are getting all we can. Sounds More than reasonable I Know and we are just Getting buy. But only just.
In September I will lose my dole and because at that point i wont qualify for any money we will in quick time default on our Mortgage. I suppose at that point I might get some rent allowance.
The fact is that for a lot of people Unemployment is anything but a jolly round of golf.

you sound screwed alright but if your wife loses her job you'll be on the pig's back.

[misterX]

The Irish welfare system is a problem right now for the country.
At it's current rates, Irish welfare is paying out high rates to many people that are 'leechers' (and i'm not talking about those unfortunate people who have been laid off).
Without getting into the complex family/carer/disability issues. If we just take the single person payments as an example:

Single person works for 20 years = €204 per week.
Single person works for 2 years = €204 per week.
Single person who never worked = €175 per week.

That doesn't seem fair. Why doesn't the person who paid more to the state get more?
The entire system needs an overhaul. FF won't do it.

[seabhcan]

In September I will lose my dole

Why?

(Genuine question, not experienced with dole myself)

[Happy Hamster]

you sound screwed alright but if your wife loses her job you'll be on the pig's back.

I shall live in hope.
But as it happens i would prefer to find a job. I think if we were both at home all day one of us would soon be claiming widows allowance!!

[code twinkle]

What does that mean? Commitment means dosh I take it and lots of it. So according to you we hand hold people from Moyross or Ballymun for 18 years so they can get a job and until then we have to stump up. Many people from "disadvantaged" areas work hard and get on in life by dint of sheer hard work and a clear moral compass. We reward the slakcers and wasters who don't want to work. How can you stay on the dole all your life and never have to work as you can here? Its wrong but nothing is done about it.

The fact that nothing is done about staying on the dole all your life is a failure of success governmental policy on this issue. The fact that welfare reform is required is what I and a number of people on this site are actually discussing. Agreed? Agreed.

My opinion - based on common sense as well as a lack of an evidence it might succeed - is that "slashing welfare" is not the kind of reform we need.

1) Being poor is MORE expensive than being rich and it is in nobodys interest to create a class of people trapped in poverty not only by educational disadvantage but also by the mounting debts that are inevitable for the very poor. See America for a case in point.

2) Educational disadvantage IS a cause of intergenerational poverty. There is ample international evidence in addition to whats sitting in front of our noses in Limerick and Dublin to support this. Breaking this cycle of educational disadvantage IS going to need very early and very consistent intervention from the state in the form of well-resourced ("dosh") and well-administered (eg. not FF-run incompetence underpinned by FF's ideological distaste) programmes based on - again - international best practice.

Punishing people for being uneducated and poor is not going to change anything and will continue to cost far far more in prison costs (particularly compared with the relatively minor investment educational programmes will require) than the alternatives I'm suggesting - and you will need to cite a serious load of academic research into social policy to change my mind on this.

By the way - education used to be something genuinely respected by your generation - since when has that changed?

[Happy Hamster]

Why?

(Genuine question, not experienced with dole myself)

this is what i was told when i first signed on. their are two types of benefit. one you get automatically If you have worked for the last 5 years, the other is means tested. the 1st one lasts only a fixed amount of time (for me thats Sept) and because my wife earns over €30.000 I wont qualify for the other. This is what I was told at the start, It didnt bother me because i never imagined being unemployed that long. Someone was kind enough to remind me about it on this site a while back and its starting to prey on my mind.
In sept my family is going to go through some significant life changes. From working class and self sufficient, to what? god only knows. If I have learnt anything from in the last 6 months its that to much pride can start to kill you, best to let it go .

[Yosser]

This is from a thread on www.askaboutmoney.com in the Money Makeover forum.
Hi guys,

Could anybody point me in the right direction of what to do. My present situation is that I am living in private rented accommodation for the past 5 1/2 years. The rent is 1100.00 per month. I receive 563.50 in rent supplement and pay the balance myself. I desprately want to get away from renting as getting a rent supplement is holding me back from working more and I do not want to pay 1100.00 per month in rent its such as waste.

My income is:-
Monthly work salary (12hrs per week) 1010.88
Back to work allowance (weekly) 195.00
FIS (weekly) 105.00
Maintenance (weekly) 180.00
Child Benefit (monthly) 330.00
Early Childcare (monthly) 92.00

My outgoings are:
Childcare (weekly) 90.00
ESB (weekly) 20.00
Gas (weekly) 20.00
NTL (weekly) 20.00
Petrol (weekly) 20.00
Loan (Mam - weekly) 50.00
Bank Loan (monthly) 170.00
Car Insurance (monthly) 62.50
House Insurance (mhtly) 15.30

I have no savings but plan to start from next thursday - 30.00 in bank and 20.00 in credit union

I have the application forms for affordable housing and shared ownership (would prefer this) and have registered with Rent2Buy.

I recived my ICB Credit Report yesterday and it is perfect (thank god!!!)

So basically what I need to know is: (a) do i have a chance at the Shared ownership/affordable housing (b) is there any other alternative that I cannot see myself?

Thanking you in advance.

Jo.
This woman is taking in the guts of €50,000 per year and she does 12 hours work per week!

[QuizMaster]

I have a decent enough job as a software developer in Derry, living in Donegal.
In the last 18 months, because of the exchange rates, my salary has sunk by about 33%. Now we are barely ticking over. In fact the bills are mounting up. We have needed to take out credit union loans 2 or 3 times a year just to pay arrears of various bills. There will be no more of those available. We have put our pension contributions on hold. We shop in the North all we can, but you can only spend so much on groceries. We can't help but buy a large amount of euro every month for mortgage, car loan, utilities etc.

If I was on the dole, with 2 kids I'd get 390 a week, plus mortgage interest payments. I would save 150 a month on commuting. I would be better off.
Plus I have a child with special needs and a wife who is finding it hard to cope.

Am I mad to stay in my job?

[H.R. Haldeman]

This woman is taking in the guts of €50,000 per year and she does 12 hours work per week!

Holy crap. Jesus. This is just so wrong. (€3k pm is €50k pa, so I actually think she's on just over €50k). And her thread is basically about how she can get more! And she wants to buy a house! Earning €50k for 12 hours work a week, wondering if the state can give her more and looking to buy a house. Unbelievable, this country is insane.

FWIW I don't begrudge people welfare in the least. I believe the state (ie taxpayers) should look after people in financial stress. But FFS, come on.

[hopi watcher]

Madness!



FULL LETTER AT THE INDO.


Now golfing pays better than work - Letters, Opinion - Independent.ie

We've had this here by the bucket load, stories concerning a 'friend' or a 'relative' and it's all the same stuff, intended to create friction between those on the dole and those working. Like a lot of people, I experienced the dole for a short period and it was the most depressing, soul destroying time of my life. On the dole, you have no future, you cannot plan because you cannot save.
The Indo love this stuff and from time to time the likes of Harris or Myers will come up with similiar tales. The bottom line is that nobody would choose to live on the dole given a reasonable alternative,and anyone who might, is in need of help. It is a nightmare, plain and simple.