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Thread: Obsticles to Recovery: Marxism and Keynesianism

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    Politics.ie Regular 20000miles's Avatar
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    Obsticles to Recovery: Marxism and Keynesianism

    There's a small piece up on mises.org, identifying the two major obsticles to recovery.

    From our knowledge of Austrian Business Cycle Theory, a recession can only end once malinvestments have been liquidated and (some) wage rates have fallen to re-employ the unemployed.

    Marxists argue however that lower wage rates represent an intensification of the exploitation process, and must be avoided at all costs through strong unions or pro-union legislation.

    Keynesian criticisms to cutting wages are a little more nuanced. They contend that cutting wage rates will result in a fall in "demand", or a drop in "spending". This will lead to further drops in demand and further job cuts. According to this doctrine, the economy can be in permament "unemploylent equilibrium" - the economy is in equilibrium but mass unemployment persists.

    Unfortunately this is not the case, and what Keynesians describe when they talk about "unemployment equilibrium" is really a huge disequilibrium, where some wage or price is forbidden from falling to its market clearing levels.

    ---

    We can study the effects of not permitting wages to fall to their market clearing levels. One such case was the Great Depression. Herbert Hoover persued proto Keynesian solutions to the depression. Rather than allowing wages to fall, he held a series of White House conferences with many industry leaders, convincing them that they had to keep paying high wages so workers could "maintain their purchasing power". Henry Ford even pledged to raise money wages.

    Here are the wage figures for 1929-1932:



    As we can see, in a time of falling prices, it meant that real wages were rising, thus further aggrivating the unemployment problem.

    This policy of preventing a fall in wages ws hailed by John Maynard Keynes as well as union leaders. Herbert Hoover in 1932 said:

    "…we might have done nothing. That would have been utter ruin. Instead we met the situation with proposals to private business and to Congress of the most gigantic program of economic defense and counterattack ever evolved in the history of the Republic. We put it into action. . . . No government in Washington has hitherto considered that it held so broad a responsibility for leadership in such times. . . . For the first time in the history of depression, dividends, profits, and the cost of living, have been reduced before wages have suffered. . . . They were maintained until the cost of living had decreased and the profits had practically vanished. They are now the highest real wages in the world."


    It was in 1932 when unemployment peaked at 25%. Hoover was clueless to the end, never wondering whether it was his high wage policy that caused mass misery and unemployment.


    So to conclude, I'm worried. Very worried about union actions all over Europe aimed at maintaining wage rates. We could be in for a long one.

    See: Contents - America's Great Depression, by Murray N. Rothbard in particular The Close of the Hoover Term

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    Now where's Imported,Dios and Clan.Should be along soon 20000.
    A champion of the people emerges with the age-old and appealing promise of "something for nothing" - to be financed through every-increasing taxes. Supply and demand are thrown out of gear - the overhead goes up; the effective use of human energy goes down; the standard of living is lowered because money cannot buy wealth that is not produced.

    WEAVER, HENRY GRADY,

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    Politics.ie Regular Ed Dantes's Avatar
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    Do you mean "Obst[SIZE=4][COLOR=#ff0000]a[/COLOR][/SIZE]cles"?

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    Politics.ie Regular 20000miles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atlantic View Post
    Now where's Imported,Dios and Clan.Should be along soon 20000.
    You forgot King Keynesian patslatt!

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    Quote Originally Posted by atlantic View Post
    Now where's Imported,Dios and Clan.Should be along soon 20000.
    Haha, we should have a cage fight, yourself and 20k with Hazlitt for good measure, with Pat on the benches until someone has to go to work.

    Folks, the government isn't some monster from the nethers leaped up to take all your money, its an elected body with a mandate to look after the interests of the general population. Free market practises brought us to this quandry, and more of the same isn't going to get us out of it.

    I won't get into a big debate here, the real world is calling, but seriously, practical use of the resources available is just common sense, less of the ideology please.

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    oops sorry forgot
    Quote Originally Posted by 20000miles View Post
    You forgot King Keynesian patslatt!
    A champion of the people emerges with the age-old and appealing promise of "something for nothing" - to be financed through every-increasing taxes. Supply and demand are thrown out of gear - the overhead goes up; the effective use of human energy goes down; the standard of living is lowered because money cannot buy wealth that is not produced.

    WEAVER, HENRY GRADY,

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    Well fairplay to ya Dios ,let the fun begin .
    Quote Originally Posted by Dios View Post
    Haha, we should have a cage fight, yourself and 20k with Hazlitt for good measure, with Pat on the benches until someone has to go to work.

    Folks, the government isn't some monster from the nethers leaped up to take all your money, its an elected body with a mandate to look after the interests of the general population. Free market practises brought us to this quandry, and more of the same isn't going to get us out of it.

    I won't get into a big debate here, the real world is calling, but seriously, practical use of the resources available is just common sense, less of the ideology please.
    A champion of the people emerges with the age-old and appealing promise of "something for nothing" - to be financed through every-increasing taxes. Supply and demand are thrown out of gear - the overhead goes up; the effective use of human energy goes down; the standard of living is lowered because money cannot buy wealth that is not produced.

    WEAVER, HENRY GRADY,

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    Politics.ie Regular 20000miles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dios View Post
    Haha, we should have a cage fight, yourself and 20k with Hazlitt for good measure, with Pat on the benches until someone has to go to work.

    Folks, the government isn't some monster from the nethers leaped up to take all your money, its an elected body with a mandate to look after the interests of the general population. Free market practises brought us to this quandry, and more of the same isn't going to get us out of it.

    I won't get into a big debate here, the real world is calling, but seriously, practical use of the resources available is just common sense, less of the ideology please.
    Whoa there. It's not just the government I hate. It's unions too!

    Not really ideological. Just sound economics.

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    Politics.ie Regular ArtyQueing's Avatar
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    Time for the Third Way - distributism
    [FONT=&quot]"You Popish rogue" 'ní leomhaid a labhairt sinn
    acht "Cromwellian dog" is focal faire againn
    nó "cia súd thall" go eann gan eagla
    "Mise Tadhg" géadh teinn an t-agallamh

    Bodaigh an Cháise táid go hatuireach
    ag filleadh ar a gcéird gach spéice smeartha aca
    gan ghunna, gan chloidheamh gan pinnse chleachtadar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dios View Post
    Folks, the government isn't some monster from the nethers leaped up to take all your money, its an elected body with a mandate to look after the interests of the general population.
    Yes, but they are doing it wrong. And they will continue to do it wrong because they cannot accept that sometimes they should do nothing. Instead they keep throwing good money after bad. Problem being that it's out money that they are throwing in a black hole. What they should do is leave our money and how we spend it to us. But they won't because then they can't justify their increasingly expensive existence.

    Free market practises brought us to this quandry, and more of the same isn't going to get us out of it.
    Did they? I haven't seen free market practices in quite some time. What I have seen is reams and reams of rubbish regulation passed, rarely enforced and when it is it's lax and applied arbitrarily.


    I won't get into a big debate here, the real world is calling, but seriously, practical use of the resources available is just common sense, less of the ideology please.
    The problem is the resources are not available.
    A poster of some consequence...

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