Obsticles to Recovery: Marxism and Keynesianism

[20000miles]

Nope wages are almost irrelevant to creating new jobs.

If there's no new demand for new goods and services, there will be no new jobs created to provide these goods and services.

That's a good one. Time to print some money and raise the minimum wage to E100 per hour. Then we can all be rich.

Goodbye, feargach.

[feargach]

That's a good one. Time to print some money and raise the minimum wage to E100 per hour. Then we can all be rich.

Goodbye, feargach.

*Sigh*

Grown-up economists (meaning non-Austrianists) measure economic events using constant money. So if we print tonnes of money, we would adjust the result to reflect the newly debased money.

Some of you may have seen graphs of prices of things going back 10 years say, and noticed that the graph mentions that it is based on "1999 dollars". This is an example of that.

[hopi watcher]

The market "controls" people who loan out irresponsibly by putting them out of business. post.

That's funny, the last time I looked the local AIB was operating away.

[feargach]

That's funny, the last time I looked the local AIB was operating away.

Lol! Good one.

Seriously though, it may be true that the market sometimes "controls" people who loan out irresponsibly by putting them out of business.

But the serious flaw is this: these people are then replaced by new, different people who go on to make the same mistakes as if nothing had ever gone wrong.

We have seen countless examples of this. We have seen THREE global re-enactments of the original Dutch tulip mania in the last decade alone! Dot-coms, oil and houses. The market failed to control anything at all. The massive bust took place, millions were given their P45s, and new faces were put in charge, and the same flippin' thing happened.

The market control, it does nothing! D:>

The truth is, people make these mistaken malinvestments because it is a part of human nature to do so. As long as human beings are placed in a position to make the malinvestments, they will make the malinvestments. Whether the market puts them out of business or not.

[lifelibertyandproperty]

That's a good one. Time to print some money and raise the minimum wage to E100 per hour. Then we can all be rich.

Goodbye, feargach.

Brilliant!

[Hazlitt]

Nope wages are almost irrelevant to creating new jobs.

*Sigh*

My god of all the ridiculous things you've said in this thread this says it all about your knowledge of economics. Do you really believe this?? hopi do you believe this also ?? I may actually add this statement to my signature because it's given me such a laugh.

If there's no new demand for new goods and services, there will be no new jobs created to provide these goods and services.

Nonsense. Say's Law holds.

...economists ... measure economic events using constant money. So if we print tonnes of money, we would adjust the result to reflect the newly debased money.

How is this a defense of your original ridiculous statement that "wages are almost irrelevant to creating jobs" ! hahaha.

Please elaborate on your claim (just to give us all a laugh)

That's funny, the last time I looked the local AIB was operating away.

Well hopi you obviously haven't been reading newspapers or watching the news, or maybe you've just been kept hidden away in a cellar over the past few months, but I and the rest of the real world were under the impression that the government needed to step in and prevent the market from liquidating banks like AIB ...

But the serious flaw is this: these people are then replaced by new, different people who go on to make the same mistakes as if nothing had ever gone wrong.

How is this a flaw for the market? Are you actually suggesting that there may be a way of every entrepreneur being able to see the future and never make a bad business decision?? Wow, will these be a new breed of superhuman?? Please tell me more...

The truth is, people make these mistaken malinvestments because it is a part of human nature to do so. As long as human beings are placed in a position to make the malinvestments, they will make the malinvestments. Whether the market puts them out of business or not.

Not all humans! Some will of course, some won't. I fail to see how this defends Marxism or Keynesianism. You can't stop a central planner making errors in allocating resources also. In fact, Marxism and Keynesianism distorts the best signal we have to date to convey information regarding resources in an economy - the price signal.

[feargach]

How is this a defense of your original ridiculous statement that "wages are almost irrelevant to creating jobs" ! hahaha.

Please elaborate on your claim (just to give us all a laugh)

Pretty simple: if nobody's buying widgets (widget being a good or service) then it is impossible for an employer to justify hiring someone to produce widgets.

It doesn't matter hardly at all whether the applicant is demanding minimum wage of €100/hour, there's no job to be had.

The "almost" is to cover marginal situations such as where an employee might be willing to work for €2.50 per hour because he's a heroin addict and all he cares about is having enough to get his daily fix, and is otherwise happy to sleep on the street and eat from bins. I'd regard such situations as statistically insignificant, but I realise I'm dealing with Austrianists.

[Hazlitt]

feargach - "wages are almost irrelevant to creating jobs"

Your example does not defend your statement. If 'Bob' has savings of €10,000 and wants to employ people for his new business venture, what are the consequences for job creation if his potential employees are looking for €15,000 per week ? Now what if they were asking for €1 per week? Do you still think wages are irrelevant to creating jobs?

Your claim was ridiculous. Accept it. It just wasn't that clever. If you keep digging a hole for yourself you'll just make yourself look more pathetic.

(Then again, I am dealing with a "behavioural economist"...)

[feargach]

feargach - "wages are almost irrelevant to creating jobs"

Your example does not defend your statement. If 'Bob' has savings of €10,000 and wants to employ people for his new business venture, what are the consequences for job creation if his potential employees are looking for €15,000 per week ? Now what if they were asking for €1 per week? Do you still think wages are irrelevant to creating jobs?

Your claim was ridiculous. Accept it. It just wasn't that clever. If you keep digging a hole for yourself you'll just make yourself look more pathetic.

(Then again, I am dealing with a "behavioural economist"...)

Your example excludes a pertinent fact: are there customers for Bob's product? If there are not, wouldn't it be foolish of the potential employees to enter into the solemn legally-binding contract of service, when Bob would likely be unable to pay him anything at all for their labour, and they would find themselves working for nothing as Bob's creditors take everything he has?

[Hazlitt]

Your example excludes a pertinent fact: are there customers for Bob's product? If there are not, wouldn't it be foolish of the potential employees to enter into the solemn legally-binding contract of service, when Bob would likely be unable to pay him anything at all for their labour, and they would find themselves working for nothing as Bob's creditors take everything he has?

Let's say for the previous example that Bob has good reason to believe there would be customers for his product or service.

But if we were to use your logic (if you could call it that!), then no new developments would come on to the market because an entrepreneur (a forecaster) would never know for sure if he would have customers in the long term. According to your logic people shouldn't even take a job for 'Bob' as a market researcher because Bob may go out of business!! Don't forget, there was no demand for an i-Pod before an i-Pod came onto the market. Were the i-Pod researchers/developers/marketers foolish to take a job on this product without knowing if there would be any demand for it? Of course not, because Apple advanced these workers wages during the production process before the product even hit the market.