Legalize Drugs & Solve the Depression

[iartaoiseach]

Here we go again. prepare for the 'drugs are bad mmmmkay' crowd. this topic has been addressed by numerous sane people on here but no matter what the facts this will turn into a never ending circle of -'I know a guy who did xxxxx because he smoked a joint' followed by a few facts , followed by denial of said facts. I'm beginning to think that it is a waste of time attempting a rational discussion on the drugs issue. you can't reason with people who refuses to be reasonable. It has been proven that the 'war' on drugs has failed but still gutless politicians refuse to even entertain a debate.
Just look at the carry on in the UK where the government refused to even listen to the people they hired to do the research when the facts got in the way of their zeal. check out the ridiculous 'talk to frank' ads that peddle the sort of stupid reefer madness rubbish that most sane people thought was a thing of the past. As for here as recently as last year then minister Pat Carey said that we were winning the war. The DEA has admitted they are failing but little ole Ireland is winning the war!! talk about a delusion. Until the lawmakers get real this ridiculous situation will continue.
As Micheal Douglas judge character in 'Traffic' said 'how can I declare war on my own family'. thats what this war is folks it's a war against our own.

[A_man_about_a_dog]

Finally some thinking outside the box in the media..I wonder if the same idea could work in this country??

Unfortunately I don't think such a solution is likely to work in this country for a number of reasons.

Firstly, we don't have any elected representatives who'd have the balls to support such a 'radical' policy. Nor would we have sufficient public figures who'd be willing to put their careers and reputations on the line to support it.

Secondly, there are an awful lot of people in Ireland who remain staunch social conservatives. They'd hit the roof if such a policy was ever to be put forward for serious consideration, despite the obvious socio-economic benefits which such a policy would generate.

I reckon that we'll have to wait until at least the next generation of young politicians come through before we see such an idea even being mooted for public discussion. We'll have to wait for the rise of the younger, more liberal sections of our society before we can even begin to contemplate such a move. IMHO, it'll probably be at least 15/20 years before we see this being discussed with any real purpose.

[DaBrow]

Finally some thinking outside the box in the media..I wonder if the same idea could work in this country??


Commentary: War on drugs is insane - CNN.com

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Here's something to think about:

How many police officers and sheriff's deputies are involved in investigating and solving crimes involving illegal drugs? And arresting and transporting and interrogating and jailing the suspects?

How many prosecutors and their staffs spend time prosecuting drug cases? How many defense lawyers spend their time defending drug suspects?

How many hours of courtroom time are devoted to drug trials? How many judges, bailiffs, courtroom security officers, stenographers, etc., spend their time on drug trials?

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Drugs are the greatest evil in society, the amount of suffering and tragedy that many families have experienced because they have lost a relative or friend to cocaine, ecstasy etc is shocking.

Personally if we were to close our borders for one year; turned the country into a fortress as an experiment.................... I bet we would drastically reduce the amount of drug related crime.


We need to take the fight to the enemy in the Jungles of Colombia and elsewhere that the drug is grown, Peru and Bolivia are also places that are not as well policed......................

If you stamp out the Corruption that is known, then that would make seizures possible and take people out of the game.


The Junglas Battallion of the Colombian Policia Nacional and the Mexican Policia Federale are the best units in the war against drugs, if we had them in Ireland................. we would probably be free in a very short period of time

[iartaoiseach]

Drugs are the greatest evil in society, the amount of suffering and tragedy that many families have experienced because they have lost a relative or friend to cocaine, ecstasy etc is shocking.

Personally if we were to close our borders for one year; turned the country into a fortress as an experiment.................... I bet we would drastically reduce the amount of drug related crime.


We need to take the fight to the enemy in the Jungles of Colombia and elsewhere that the drug is grown, Peru and Bolivia are also places that are not as well policed......................

If you stamp out the Corruption that is known, then that would make seizures possible and take people out of the game.


The Junglas Battallion of the Colombian Policia Nacional and the Mexican Policia Federale are the best units in the war against drugs, if we had them in Ireland................. we would probably be free in a very short period of time

I rest my case. no possibility of a rational discussion.

[DaBrow]

I rest my case. no possibility of a rational discussion.

I lost a cousin to drugs, don't tell me that I'm irrational.............................

Tell that to other decent families who have lost their children due to an overdose.


Katy French RIP is the most infamous case of how any family rich or poor can fall victim to this terrible scurge on society............................

[20000miles]

Drugs are the greatest evil in society, the amount of suffering and tragedy that many families have experienced because they have lost a relative or friend to cocaine, ecstasy etc is shocking.

Don't forget alcohol and nicotine. Caffeine too.

Personally if we were to close our borders for one year; turned the country into a fortress as an experiment.................... I bet we would drastically reduce the amount of drug related crime.

If you want to pay for all this, be my guest. I'll pass on the offer.

We need to take the fight to the enemy in the Jungles of Colombia and elsewhere that the drug is grown, Peru and Bolivia are also places that are not as well policed......................

I see, you want to fight an imperialist war against the brown people.

If you stamp out the Corruption that is known, then that would make seizures possible and take people out of the game.

Corruption is just the logical consequence of an anti-drug policy.

The Junglas Battallion of the Colombian Policia Nacional and the Mexican Policia Federale are the best units in the war against drugs, if we had them in Ireland................. we would probably be free in a very short period of time

Free? From drugs? Don't like them, don't take them.

[feargach]

It's time. The things we would need to do to actually win the war on drugs are beyond what we would be willing to contemplate. So let's face up to reality.

Also, there is the other point: drugs law is the only area of life where serious punishment is meted out by the state for behaviour which harms nobody (except the perpetrator, and usually not even that as most drug use has no negative consequences).

Every other area of law is based on punishing a person for the injury he caused to someone else. Whether through dishonesty or actual physical harm or robbery or whatever.

For all other areas where adults self-harm, we consider it insane that the law should be involved. Except this lone, single issue.

That is why, I think, we have never really set in place the gulags + guillotines system necessary to truly win the war on drugs: ultimately, we know that the war is immoral and that escalating it would be disgusting and wrong. But we don´t have the backbone to admit we were so wrong for so long, so we neither exacerbate or end the war.

[DaBrow]

Don't forget alcohol and nicotine. Caffeine too.

I see, you want to fight an imperialist war against the brown people.

1. Drugs are more likely to kill you instantly than a shot of caffeine, you don't have be a genius to work that out!

2. What kind of crap is this? I would fight a war against anyone that fits the profile of ; murdering B*stards, profits from inhuman torture and suffering and has no form of conscience.......................... I couldn't give a rats arse what their colour & ethnic background is! Twisting an arguement like this to imply ethnic prejudice is weak, untrue and frankly bizzare!

Mestizios aren't solely the villians but mainly the victims too................. like the rest of that continent whom are white, amerindian and Black aswell! Whom are also present in the FARC!

[JCSkinner]

Finally some thinking outside the box in the media..I wonder if the same idea could work in this country??

Of course it would. However, it would be useful for us as a society to seek to define the perameters of what we want to permit and to what level before legislating.
Personally, I'd decriminalise the possession and cultivation of cannabis, and licence it for sale to over 21s in licensed premises.
I'd provide free on demand heroin to junkies only in secure locations under medical supervision and with security present.
I'd then commission expert advise on how best to address issues like ecstasy and other designer drugs. Legalise and tax, a la cannabis? Decriminalise? Or prohibit?
I would certainly continue to oppose any relaxation of cocaine or its derivatives at this point in time. Same with amphetamines. I'd also want to look at reducing usage of barbiturates and other addictive substances overly prescribed by medics.

[20000miles]

1. Drugs are more likely to kill you instantly than a shot of caffeine, you don't have be a genius to work that out!

Really, so you're saying there's a strong disincentive when it comes to using dangerous drugs. You still haven't come to grips with the fact that alcohol and tobacco are far more unhealthy than cannibis and ecstasy will ever be.

2. What kind of crap is this? I would fight a war against anyone that fits the profile of ; murdering B*stards, profits from inhuman torture and suffering and has no form of conscience.......................... I couldn't give a rats arse what their colour & ethnic background is!

Mestizios aren't solely the villians but mainly the victims too................. like the rest of the continent whom are white, amerindian and Black aswell!

I mentioned this before, but far from having no form of conscience, drug dealers, like all entrepreneurs like to have their business done peacefully. When police try to interfere in an otherwise voluntary exchange, that's when the shooting starts. Similarly, drug dealers cannot compete with each other based on price and quality, so the only option they have left is a war with competing drug barons.

When was the last time you went to an "alcohol-dealer"? When did you last hear of an "alcohol turf war"?

Rather than re-invent the wheel, I'll just repeat what I've told you several times before:

Until you disentangle cause (drug criminalisation) and effect (drug cartels, corruption, violence, poor quality) then you will be completely lost in this argument.