proposals for welfare reform

[petervalhala]

You want to have Irish taxpayers pay for people living in Latvia or Lithuania.
You're mad. You pay for them, if you're so generous.

Precisely how do we pay for them ?

[advertismo]

Well you are digressing by putting forward some cheap point, you seem to forget that the FF/GRN government have a mandate, they were elected by a majority of the people, that's you and me. FF is a democratic party, we live in a democracy.

Start your own thread if you are seriously suggesting we ignore democracy.

Don't be daft. Cowen has no mandate.

[advertismo]

Precisely how do we pay for them ?

Welfare (childrens allowance) is paid to EU citizens in Ireland in respect of any children they claim to have in their country of origin, at a rate of about 130 € / month / child; the rate increases after the third, fourth, etc.
If they say they have half a dozen kids they get about a grand a month for them.
As far as I know, the only evidence they need produce are birth certs.

[Horace Horse]

Precisely how do we pay for them ?

You mean you don't know? You've got some cheek engaging in a discussion on this topic.

I'll help you. We pay child benefit for children who in many cases have never even been in Ireland.

Of course in a number of these cases it's because the children don't exist...

That's what the Fianna Fail clowns cabinet has brought upon Irish workers and taxpayers.

[Dios]

Between something like 2002 & 2008 over nine hundred PPS numbers were issued to non-nationals;

O_o

in the latter part of this period the majority were EU citizens; though there was a fair bit of immigration from these areas before this. In the same period of time the number of homes in Ireland doubled.

Eh what, I have some difficulty making sense of what you are saying here. 900 PPS numbers? The facts are as I have stated them, the doors opened in 2004, a whole two years before the boom collapsed. Do you really think that the number of construction workers had any impact on the number of houses built? They were just facilitators, there was never any shortage of construction workers in this country, as long as someone was willing to pay for them. Never mind standardisation in construction methods and materials that led to faster construction, among other things.

Lay out each of those flats on the ground as one-storey housing units and picture the scene.
Most of them have between a 40 & 80% immigrant population.

Once again, what? Have you any source to indicate that new builds (post 2002 say) have an average 60% migrant occupation rate?

Can you remember the rate of construction in Ireland before immigration ?

I can remember it pre-boom if thats any good to you.

There was certainly no baby-boom that I can recall that would correspond to the need for it to multiply twenty-fold as it did.

You're missing the point I fear. There was no need for it to multiply even with migration. None. All of those houses you envision as being filled with migrants, most are empty. Thats right, sitting there vacant. They can't be sold, can't be rented, its what we call the property overhang, and it amounts to some quarter of a million properties in this country.

The Nigerians were quietly ushered in by FF as the means to begin the housing orgy.

Um the Nigerians arrived because of a loophole in our constitution known as the Irish Born Child law, which was around since the beginning of the state, and rescinded by popular vote after abuses became extant.

Every landlord in the counrty would default, toxic debt would explode.

You're assuming that most landlords have an outstanding mortgage. This is not the case, although many have.

[Horace Horse]

Dios:
"Not a bit, social interaction with our fellow Europeans brings many benefits to us culturally".
Care to give us two or three examples (you claim "many")?

[Horace Horse]

Originally Posted by advertismo
"Every landlord in the counrty would default, toxic debt would explode."

You mean Fianna Fail's slum landlord supporters?

[Catalpa]

Precisely where did you get the 15,000 figure from?

We are members of the EU and there is free movement of labour between states. Perhaps the UK will copy your suggestion and stop Irish nationals travelling there too?

Many people claiming welfare here are from the north using fake southern addresses, didnt u see the news coverage in the last few days regarding the timely crackdown on this?

A single person under 25 gets €54 in the UK vs €204 here - just goes to show how we need to reform social welfare here, especially to target the spongers who have no intention of working, and making sure those who want to get a job receive a decent amount to assist them, until they find the work they are truthfully seeking.

Its a sorry state of affairs that in this day and age we still have racists such as you; as a matter of interest are you a tax payer or are you on welfare?

The figures are here chum:

Personal Public Service Numbers -Allocation By Nationality-All Countries 2009PPSNTopicsThe Department of Social and Family Affairs

I take it you can count?

BTW you might find this article informative:

Nigeria cracks down on illegal aliens C.A.R.D

[Dios]

Dios:
"Not a bit, social interaction with our fellow Europeans brings many benefits to us culturally".
Care to give us two or three examples (you claim "many")?

Can you away like a good lad.

ehm, yes - that should have been 900,000.

Sorry now, as I understand it the majority of inward migration to Ireland has been from eastern europeans, and this was post 2004. Are you trying to say there are 900,000 migrants living in this country?

[advertismo]

[QUOTE=Dios;1481105]O_o


Eh what, I have some difficulty making sense of what you are saying here. 900 PPS numbers? The facts are as I have stated them, the doors opened in 2004, a whole two years before the boom collapsed. Do you really think that the number of construction workers had any impact on the number of houses built? They were just facilitators, there was never any shortage of construction workers in this country, as long as someone was willing to pay for them. Never mind standardisation in construction methods and materials that led to faster construction, among other things.

900,000, that should have been. Probably not much more than thirty-forty thousand of these were employed in construction. But figures for Polish immigration alone have been give as between 250,000 (Irish Govt.) & 500,000 (Polish Govt.)
It's the Goldrush sydrome. Snowball effect.



Once again, what? Have you any source to indicate that new builds (post 2002 say) have an average 60% migrant occupation rate?

I'm a keen observer, and don't believe government figures.





You're missing the point I fear. There was no need for it to multiply even with migration. None. All of those houses you envision as being filled with migrants, most are empty. Thats right, sitting there vacant. They can't be sold, can't be rented, its what we call the property overhang, and it amounts to some quarter of a million properties in this country.

Only developments built since 2007 are in their greater part empty. Most others are occupied. The building boom began in the mid-late nineties after the Lucan rezoning, and gathered pace thence; reaching it's zenith during the EU accession influx. Tallaght, Parkwest, Blanchardstown, Lucan, Crumlin, Drimnagh, Clondalkin, Portlaoise, Navan, Clonee....all have a majority of post-2000 constructions filled.


Um the Nigerians arrived because of a loophole in our constitution known as the Irish Born Child law, which was around since the beginning of the state, and rescinded by popular vote after abuses became extant.

It was around since the Good Friday Agreement, and rescinded at the behest of the EU who got peeved at the inward movement of Nigerians from Ireland.
Their presence was engineered by Fianna Fáil. Look at the Flats in Tallaght - a majority Nigerian occupancy; yet they were in South Dublin County Council's Development Plan long before their occupants arrived. Tens of thousands are housed in them. They planned the Flats, then brought in the tenants. ''Sure, fvck it; we've spare cash - we'll pay their rent with the Welfare fund.''



You're assuming that most landlords have an outstanding mortgage. This is not the case, although many have.[/QUOTE]

They usually pay their mortgage from their tenant's rent (which largely comes from Housing Benefit these days). I'm sure most would rather sever their investment than maintain it through other income.