venezuela seizes 2700 smurfit acres

[Iwillin Mebollox]

So we're all agreed, Chávez yourself and I, that corruption is rife in Venezuela. You're just being boorish and abusive for the hell of it then?



Oh spare me! Every corrupt dump on earth has a constitution filled to the brim with fine words about non-corruption.

The test is: is there a strong independent judiciary which can speedily and reliably shut down and prosecute abuses of power by the state? How might a non-Bolivarian judge make it to the top of the judicial system?

Who will be Venezuela's answer to Spain's Baltazar Garzón? Nobody. Any judge who defies the boss in Venezuela will, at best, lose his job. At worst, he'll lose some cherished body parts too.

By and large, the norm in Latin America is to have a hopelessly backlogged legal and administrative system.

The corrupt official (almost always a party loyalist of the ruling boss) simply demands a coima, if he doesn't get it, he shuts the business down and the business owner has to spend several months struggling with hundreds of bureaucratic steps before he can restart his business.

Sadly, in south America, the idea of a professional public service is still alien. Everybody accepts that when the party in government changes, then so does virtually every public employee. These appointees see their roles as sinecures, and the bribes they can extract as simple payback for years of hard slogging for the party. This is identical for left and right.

I'm fairly sure that the only changes Chávez wants to bring in are ones which won't harm his underlings' ability to cream things off. And if he didn't they'd be ex-underlings and he'd be deposed.

At the risk of sounding like Bush, are you with the imperialists or with the people of Latin America? If you are with the Imperialists, fine. If you are with the Venezuelan people, then why nit pick? It is incredinbly frustrating to hear so called progressive people wasting their time attacking a man whose government is leading the opposition to imperialism in the world today. Is he perfect? No. But no one is. While the people have to be to the forefront of change and no one should give blind faith to any leader, to condemn the man the way some 'super lefties' do is pathetic and petty. It highlights the fact that unfortunately many people on the left just love the concept of 'opposition' moreso than actually backing the real alternative to imperialism.

To be fair to the man, there is nothing to suggest any corruption on his part. The Venezuelan constitution is not just words, it is a living breathing thing that has transformed that country for the better. If it's a choice between Chavez and that opportunist, manufactured all things to all people gimmick in the white house, I know who I support.

The working people of Venezuela genuinely support Chavez and the huge gains they have made, would not have been possible without him. Of course the movement should not be about Chavez, but to reject the huge progress he has brought to Venezuela, out of some trendy left obsession with condemning anyone in power (even the progressive leaders) is just plain silly. It is an us V them world and if you back the little man over the capitalist, the Chavez is undoubtedly one of the good guys.

[feargach]

At the risk of sounding like Bush, are you with the imperialists or with the people of Latin America? If you are with the Imperialists, fine.

Oh spare me that, please!!

Do you blame every Irish problem on British interference? Or do you accept that some Irish problems have Irish roots?

News for you: Cuba is corrupt too, just like the USSR was! Corrupt socialism is no better than corrupt capitalism.

This isn´t a left vs right debate, it´s a corruption vs honesty debate!

I´m personally very left-wing, but I can see that the problem in Latina America is not the economic systems there, but the corrupt manner in which those systems are operated.

[Iwillin Mebollox]

Oh spare me that, please!!

Do you blame every Irish problem on British interference? Or do you accept that some Irish problems have Irish roots?

News for you: Cuba is corrupt too, just like the USSR was! Corrupt socialism is no better than corrupt capitalism.

This isn´t a left vs right debate, it´s a corruption vs honesty debate!

I´m personally very left-wing, but I can see that the problem in Latina America is not the economic systems there, but the corrupt manner in which those systems are operated.

If you think there is anything disproportionately corrupt about Venezuela, you are deluded. You seem to be basing your lazy assumption that Venezuela is corrupt on nothing more than the usual media propaganda. Venezuela is easily one of the most accountable countries on the planet, nut perfect by any means, but head and shoulders above most countries. It's laughable enough when right-wingers spread this lie, when left-wingers do it it's positively daft. Of course this is a left-right issue. I get the impression that by your definition of corruption, just about every country is corrupt. People like you will never be pleased.Please give ONE example of widespread corruption in the Chavez government?

[feargach]

If you think there is anything disproportionately corrupt about Venezuela, you are deluded. You seem to be basing your lazy assumption that Venezuela is corrupt on nothing more than the usual media propaganda.

Chávez has already said that corruption is rife in Venezuela. In HIS administration.

I am basing the assumption that Venezuela is disproportionately corrupt in first-world terms and normally corrupt in Latin-American terms on the fact that Venezuela under Chávez is the most secretive democracy on Earth in terms of its spending, and on the common-sense assumption that only people with something to hide keep secrets so obsessively.

Venezuela is easily one of the most accountable countries on the planet, nut perfect by any means, but head and shoulders above most countries.

How is it more accountable than any EU country? Or Japan? Or Australia and NZ?

It's laughable enough when right-wingers spread this lie, when left-wingers do it it's positively daft.

One of us is definitely daft.

Of course this is a left-right issue. I get the impression that by your definition of corruption, just about every country is corrupt. People like you will never be pleased.Please give ONE example of widespread corruption in the Chavez government?

The missing oil billions are THE example. All the anti-poverty campaigns in Venezuela are widely promoted and well-known. But they only account for a tiny sliver of the massive flood of dollars that Venezuela gets for the oil. Where did the rest go?

[Ecoguy]

theres nothing crazy about it . Growing eucalyptus when a country needs agricultural produce for its people to eat is whats crazy . Hugo put a stop to smurfits craziness .

Not alone that but eucalyptus outside of its native Australia is a serious pest in terms of impacts on ground water(and water supplies in general since its leaves are toxic to fish) and the damage it does to native wildlife in countries like Venezuela. Portugal which sowed thousands of hectares of the stuff in the 70's and 80's are now spending millions getting rid of it and repairing the damage to water supplies and farmland.

[FutureTaoiseach]

At this stage his policies in this regard amount to grand-theft. This is unacceptable and international sanctions seem a reasonable response to such provocation. I wonder how he expects to attract FDI if he's going to carry on like this. He has been kept afloat by the oil-price but that is now collapsing. He may yet have cause to regret his present stance.