The German view of Ireland's Crisis

[seabhcan]

Good article in the IT today:

Irish race from bust to boom and back again leaves Germans feeling confused and resentful - The Irish Times - Thu, Mar 05, 2009

Some snippets:

As German economic growth hovered near zero, the Irish economy appeared to roar ahead. The beige-wearing Germans with their 12- year-old Mercedes had been overtaken by the sharp-suited Irish in their new BMWs. Irish economists decided that the German economic model of slow, steady growth had had its day. They had no qualms in telling Germany that Ireland had seen the future and it was all leverage and Louis Vuitton. The peak of this Irish confidence-cum-cockiness came with the rejection of the Lisbon Treaty. No one here really cares for complicated explanations when a simple one will do: the “No” vote was Ireland thumbing its nose at the rest of the EU after pocketing its billions.

And what was this Ireland, financial officials in Berlin asked, except an economic basket case of fictitious money and very real debts, and regulation so light to the touch that it amounted to a “regulation-free zone”. After previous banking dramas in 2007, the Depfa episode confirmed many German suspicions that modernity and Ireland don’t mix. German newspaper reports of the Irish meltdown confirm that view. The Frankfurter Allgemeine headlined its article on Ireland “For They Know Not What They Do”.

I am trying to decide whether I am more insulted by the German steriotype or the fact that our banking and political 'elite' have lived up to it.

[Pauli]

Excellent article. It hits the nail on the head about the German view of modern Ireland. And not just Germany. The McCreevy-Harney economic bullcrap, the arrogant cockiness, the disdain for actually making things and exporting them, the theft, as the Germans see it, of German corporation tax through the one-trick pony of the IFSC and corporation tax in general, all of this went to draining good-will towards Ireland in Germany and beyond. I spoke to a German friend about this last month who replied "Merkel should just tell them "You're on your own"". I understand the point of view. I mean, why should Germany bail out this basket case? Especially when Harney, one of the main architects of the disaster, is still in government?

I'd tell them to piss off too if I was German.

[seabhcan]

I spoke to a German friend about this last month who replied "Merkel should just tell them "You're on your own"". I understand the point of view. I mean, why should Germany bail out this basket case? Especially when Harney, one of the main architects of the disaster, is still in government?

I'd tell them to piss off too if I was German.

I'm wondering if Ireland would be better off too, in the long run.

A little bird told me Merkel named her price for helping Ireland - 40% corporation tax.

[jpc]

Who are these economists of which you speak?
Was it Dickens who wrote"Dining on a banquet of consequences"?
Lets get ready to eat a lot of humble pie.

[Pauli]

I'm wondering if Ireland would be better off too, in the long run.

A little bird told me Merkel named her price for helping Ireland - 40% corporation tax.

It wouldn't surprise me. The corporation tax rate has pissed off the Germans for a long time now. But Merkel holds all the aces right now. After all, Ireland is little bigger than Berlin so if the Germans want to help, they can. Anybody who thinks, however, that there will be no quid pro quo is living in a fantasy.

[shmuck]

Good article in the IT today:

Irish race from bust to boom and back again leaves Germans feeling confused and resentful - The Irish Times - Thu, Mar 05, 2009

Some snippets:





I am trying to decide whether I am more insulted by the German steriotype or the fact that our banking and political 'elite' have lived up to it.

and yet they want to bail us out? mmmm???

[TradCat]

A little bird told me Merkel named her price for helping Ireland - 40% corporation tax.

Hands off our tax rates! God be with the days when Charlie McCreevey was telling the Germans they should copy our model. Here's a bullish 2004 defence of our position

McCreevy Rejects Corporation Tax harmonisation proposals

Responding to a recent call from France and Germany for a concrete proposal, as soon as possible, for a single corporate tax base that might include a minimum tax rate, the Minister for Finance, Mr Charlie McCreevy TD today (8 June) said that Ireland would resist any such proposals.

The Minister said that Ireland has consistently held, and continues to hold, the view that issues of tax policy “ought to be determined democratically by individual Member States in the light of their individual policy priorities”.

The Minister added that “Ireland had successfully and determinedly pursued a policy of low personal and business taxation, including our 12.5 per cent rate of Corporation Tax, with spectacular success. We have created a dynamic employment and investment-friendly environment in which over 300,000 new jobs have been created and countless tens of thousands of existing jobs maintained over the past 7 years.”

Mr McCreevy said that while there were many reasons for the successful transformation of the Irish economy, the radical reform of the tax system was an absolutely crucial element. “This issue of tax policy determination is one which cuts to the very heart of national sovereignty. We will resist any attempts, from whatever source, which would dilute our sovereignty in relation to this issue which is of such national importance.”

Ends.

[revereie]

It wouldn't surprise me. The corporation tax rate has pissed off the Germans for a long time now. But Merkel holds all the aces right now. After all, Ireland is little bigger than Berlin so if the Germans want to help, they can. Anybody who thinks, however, that there will be no quid pro quo is living in a fantasy.

A 40% CT rate is a non-runner. Undoubtedly if a bailout is required from Germany, there will be T&Cs but nothing as serious as that. With the further thousands of jobs in Ireland then under threat, would a IMF-baliout be cheaper ?

[Big Bobo]

I really wish the IT would stop claiming that the EU gave us bags full of money with no strings attached. The conditions of the money from the EU was that we would hand over fishing rights and embrace neo-liberalism ie sell off state assets to vulture capitalists.

[Fear Dorcha]

I'm wondering if Ireland would be better off too, in the long run.

A little bird told me Merkel named her price for helping Ireland - 40% corporation tax.

I don't understand all this business about out corporation tax and Germany. Its not as if the few firms locating here would have had much of an impact on the German economy. Surely Germany is the last EU state to want to have any dependancy on FDI for the sake of creating a few lousy jobs. Germany has the most enviable economy in Europe, they don't need the US. Hopefully we will also start building up our own indigenous base and stop relying on FDI.