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Thread: Are we reverting to Socialism again?

  1. #61
    Politics.ie Regular /etc's Avatar
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    no i don't think we are ready for socialism even if we want to dive into it. Socialism is too advanced a political philosohy for a population who believe that being "slimy" is a positive attribute for a politician as our former teflon Taoiseach had persistently demonstrated.

  2. #62
    Politics.ie Member Big Bobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dios View Post
    Actually the reason you edited was because you knew it would cause all further statements from yourself to be viewed as crackpot nuttery.
    No I stand by that statement and have said it before many times. It's you who should be embarrassed with gems like "private property is the cornerstone of modern civillisation". Perhaps you could elaborate on that a little?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bobo View Post
    Why then according to you is it ok for someone to be born into riches while 10 miles down the road another is born poor? Do they not both have the same rights to all property on the planet?
    In an ideal world, perhaps. But we'll never have Utopia on this planet Bobo. Better be realistic and start with something attainable - like a fair set of ground rules, applied equally to rich and poor alike with the full force of the law.

    I like the term 'People before Profit'. Although its been somewhat out of fashion, it is the solution in a nutshell.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bobo View Post
    Perhaps you could elaborate on that a little?
    What would be the point, you have no intention of altering your opinion regardless of what I say. As Churchill put it, a fanatic is one who will change neither his mind nor the topic.

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  5. #65
    Politics.ie Member Big Bobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colada View Post
    In an ideal world, perhaps. But we'll never have Utopia on this planet Bobo. Better be realistic and start with something attainable - like a fair set of ground rules, applied equally to rich and poor alike with the full force of the law.

    I like the term 'People before Profit'. Although its been somewhat out of fashion, it is the solution in a nutshell.
    I agree and that's why the demands of socialists and communists must be transitional. It would be wrong of me to call for social revolution right now because the people are clearly not ready for it. Their political and class consciousness needs to be significantly raised. However I believe it is correct to call for the immediate nationalisation of all banks and insurance firms as well as a ban on property speculation. The time is correct to abolish the two tier health and education systems. The time is correct to nationalise waterford cyrstal and re-nationalise eircom and Aer Lingus. The time is correct for the state to employ the hundreds of thousands out of work and start a public works programme to build the infrastructure we need.

  6. #66
    Politics.ie Member Big Bobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dios View Post
    What would be the point, you have no intention of altering your opinion regardless of what I say. As Churchill put it, a fanatic is one who will change neither his mind nor the topic.
    Perhaps not but I am interested in why you think that way. Go on tell me why private property is the cornerstone of all civillisation?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bobo View Post
    Perhaps not but I am interested in why you think that way. Go on tell me why private property is the cornerstone of all civillisation?
    Once again, why would I bother? This is the fundamental disconnect that afflicts many of a political bent I feel, greater adherence to dogma and personality cults than to reality, a refusal to accept other points of view, which puts them at a disadvantage and sets them up for falls that affect many more people than themselves in future. My own views are the opposite and revolve around constantly changing reality, with the aim of improving the general lot of people. There is no dogmatic right or wrong solution to this equation. Most ideas have a few grains of value in them - why not take the value and discard the rest?

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  8. #68
    Politics.ie Regular mr_anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Doyle View Post
    What?


    Now you are simply taking the piss.

    Free education is there for everyone.
    Some choose to pay for private, which isn't even private as the state still pay the teachers.

    Free Healthcare (for a large swathe of the population).
    Don't believe me ?
    Then abolishing medical cards should cause you no issue at all.

    My point is that whilst the economy may be run on capitalist lines, the state is not.
    If it was, then there would be no health, education or social welfare spending.

    Remarkably if this was the case, then the government would be running a massive budget surplus.
    Consequeltly, whilst it could be said that capitalism has failed to pay for the socialist state, capitalism itself has not failed.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_anderson View Post
    Free education is there for everyone.
    Some choose to pay for private, which isn't even private as the state still pay the teachers..
    The term free simply means you pay no direct fee. Education is far from free in this country.



    Quote Originally Posted by mr_anderson View Post
    Free Healthcare (for a large swathe of the population).
    Don't believe me ?
    Then abolishing medical cards should cause you no issue at all...
    Do you even know what you are saying here?

    If there was free healthcare, you wouldn't need medical cards.

    capitalism itself has not failed.
    Capitalism routinely fails, its why we've had boom bust cycles since the 17th century.
    Voters don't decide issues, they decide who will decide issues.

    George Will

  10. #70
    Politics.ie Member Big Bobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dios View Post
    Once again, why would I bother? This is the fundamental disconnect that afflicts many of a political bent I feel, greater adherence to dogma and personality cults than to reality, a refusal to accept other points of view, which puts them at a disadvantage and sets them up for falls that affect many more people than themselves in future. My own views are the opposite and revolve around constantly changing reality, with the aim of improving the general lot of people. There is no dogmatic right or wrong solution to this equation. Most ideas have a few grains of value in them - why not take the value and discard the rest?
    I hardly think rejecting the view of "private property is the conerstone of all civillisation" makes me dogmatic.

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