Are we reverting to Socialism again?

[Herodotus]

So the Indo warns you all about the dangers of socialism.....and you actually listen?? You actually listen to the (sir) Tony O'Reilly propaganda machine?? Back in your pen sheeple!

Last time I remember socialism being attacked in the Indo, last time I looked at that rag, was when the Wind the Shakes the Barley came out and there was a piece entitled the socialism that shakes the barley. It was complete rubbish, total hatchet job.

Look, they're worried the working class will figure out that socialism actually is the answer to the problem, which will take the wealth and power out of the hands of the elite in this society and bring it to the people. (real democracy-not one useless vote every 5 years and then ignoring the results of Lisbon etc)

Of course they can always rely on the buffer zone between the elite and the workers to talk ******************** all day long of how evil socialism is, because it upsets their priviliged place on the ladder also. (the petit burgeois, professionals like doctors, lawyers, accountants, big business and professional politicians)

At €3billion (sir) Tony O'Reilly is the wealthiest man in Ireland. Do you really think he has nothing to do with all this? Do you really think he won't do all he can to hang onto his priviliges?? The consequences are massive for him if people stop reading the crap printed in the Indo.

....of course, if you really do believe in the benevolence of the elite class that runs this country, then go back into dreamland, you're probably doing just fine.

I agree mate, brilliant post.

[JCSkinner]

I think that's what Hazlitt was getting at. We don't have private competing monies. The State has a monopoly on money creation and counterfeiting. Call it what you want, it doesn't resemble anything capitalistic.

Not true. There are umpteen competing currencies, and in the modern internet age, a credit card permits you to purchase from anywhere in any currency.

Let's compromise...how about "State socialism".

I think 'capitalism' is much more succinct, not to mention more accurate.

[20000miles]

Not true. There are umpteen competing currencies, and in the modern internet age, a credit card permits you to purchase from anywhere in any currency.

True. ECB notes are legal tender for all debt public and private in the EU. And all of those "competing" currencies are State backed.

I think 'capitalism' is much more succinct, not to mention more accurate.

If you think State controlled central banks with a territorial monopoly on money production and price fixing is capitalist then you are flat out wrong. The current scenario allows for no competition among money producers.

[Retrolives]

Two points - communism isn't socialism, and the concept of central banks is a well-established one in many if not all capitalist countries.

Hi JC,

According to Marx, Engels and Lenin; communism and socialism are the exact same. This was made clear in all their writings and the terms were considered interchangeable.

The Soviet Union was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The Soviet Union defined the communist state in the modern world. Trying to draw a distinction between socialism and communism is just a way of trying to hide the true totalitarian nature of these regimes behind a curtain of semantics. The confusion of terms arose out of the personality dispute between Stalin and Trotsky over the policy of "War Socialism" and "Socialism in One Country".

Socialists have even stooped so low as to call the Soviet Union a "State Capitalist" country. In fact, they use "State Capitalism" as a term to describe all socialist countries because they are all totalitarian and tyrannical.

No one can doubt that Lenin and is apostles were ruthlessly devout to the word or Marx. To claim he was not true to the cause is hypocrisy. Socialism implies totalitarianism and no Orwellian confusing of definitions will change that.

[JCSkinner]

True. ECB notes are legal tender for all debt public and private in the EU. And all of those "competing" currencies are State backed.

And yet they compete in the global marketplace and increasingly in the consumer marketplace too. Just watch the M1 to Newry of a Saturday if you don't believe me.

If you think State controlled central banks with a territorial monopoly on money production and price fixing is capitalist then you are flat out wrong. The current scenario allows for no competition among money producers.

As I've already pointed out, there's never been more competition among money producers.

[20000miles]

And yet they compete in the global marketplace and increasingly in the consumer marketplace too. Just watch the M1 to Newry of a Saturday if you don't believe me.

As I've already pointed out, there's never been more competition among money producers.

Sigh...but are they private or do all these currencies have a State granted monopoly in a geographical area.

[JCSkinner]

Hi JC,

According to Marx, Engels and Lenin; communism and socialism are the exact same. This was made clear in all their writings and the terms were considered interchangeable.

They may have. Modern political scientists do not consider the terms interchangeable, however.

The Soviet Union was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The Soviet Union defined the communist state in the modern world.

A bit like the Democratic Republic of North Korea, that one. Not very democratic, really. Or the People's Republic of China, which denies the people any say in how it's run. Or, for fun, the United Kingdom with its many parliaments. States call themselves all sorts of silly things. It doesn't make it so.

Trying to draw a distinction between socialism and communism is just a way of trying to hide the true totalitarian nature of these regimes behind a curtain of semantics. The confusion of terms arose out of the personality dispute between Stalin and Trotsky over the policy of "War Socialism" and "Socialism in One Country".

Simply not true. There is a large gulf between socialism and communism.
Socialism vs. Communism
Even the neo-cons know that:
Capitalism vs Socialism vs Communism

Socialists have even stooped so low as to call the Soviet Union a "State Capitalist" country. In fact, they use "State Capitalism" as a term to describe all socialist countries because they are all totalitarian and tyrannical.

State capitalist does apply fairly well to the Soviet Union. I prefer the simple Greek term despotic oligarchy, however.

No one can doubt that Lenin and is apostles were ruthlessly devout to the word or Marx. To claim he was not true to the cause is hypocrisy. Socialism implies totalitarianism and no Orwellian confusing of definitions will change that.

No it doesn't. Now you're being extremely silly indeed.

[JCSkinner]

Sigh...but are they private or do all these currencies have a State granted monopoly in a geographical area.

Some are private and some are state monopolies and some are supra-state monopolies.

[20000miles]

Some are private and some are state monopolies and some are supra-state monopolies.

And all of these were formed through government legislation, not through the market.

[20000miles]

No one can doubt that Lenin and is apostles were ruthlessly devout to the word or Marx. To claim he was not true to the cause is hypocrisy. Socialism implies totalitarianism and no Orwellian confusing of definitions will change that.

No it doesn't. Now you're being extremely silly indeed.

Putting words in my mouth now .