Despite their best intentions, government involvement in the monetary sphere of the economy got us into this mess. Socialism - a further foray by the government into even more sectors of the economy can only do more harm than good.Originally Posted by JCSkinner
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Fail. Rampant casino capitalism in an insufficiently regulated environment is what got us into this mess.
Nonsense. It was insufficient involvement that led to this abyss. We need to take the control out of the hands of the gamblers and refocus our resources on rebuilding our shattered economy.
As David McWilliams says in his latest article, you cannot solve the problem by ploughing money into the banks and expecting them to lend to businesses, because that's like paying a gambler and expecting him to hand it over to the wife for housekeeping.
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Can you elaborate on this please? How?
Nonsense. This recession is a monetary issue. Who controls our money? That's right, the European Central Bank, not a capitalist institution.
I never said you could, capitalists don't rely on taxpayers money bailing out failing institutions, that's a socialist principle.
I don't think the failed banks should be bailed out, they loaned out money irresponsibly and are getting their rewards for bad decisions and bad practices.
Don't forget though it was bad LAWS (government-created) that allowed them to lend out more and more money, creating a property and construction bubble and leaving us vulnerable to this recession.
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You know I really am beginning to think this true of a lot of organisations. SF have managed their 'Base' ... as the saying goes ....
Its funny, but a great many resident Eastern Europeans in this country I have talked to think we are a socialist state. Much more so than any other they care to mention. It seems strange, but the provision of state pension, child benefit, health care and other support services, social housing, free education (Including special needs) and a raft of other services we take for granted, are socialism in action. All that is missing to make it a socialist state that badge wearing socialists would recognise is tighter media control, censorship and single party government.
It is arguable that we are in fact a socialist country, very close to the principle this country was founded on, we are just not a communist state (the term socialism being often highjacked to mask the promotion of the latter).
I would be careful of ascribing belief in socialism or leaving its definition to those who claim to champion it. The reality is, as we have seen very often on this site, they usually are promoting far more extremem and authoritarian political agendas and are trying to import and impose tried and failed foreign definitions of socialism.
Rampant speculation by banks on notional values of property and other assets which subsequently collapsed is what instigated this recession.
Hence the phrase 'casino capitalism'.
You're blaming the ECB? That's risible. And the recession isn't primarily a monetary issue. It's a stock market crash precipitated by dodgy financial speculation.
Apparently capitalists do bail out failing institutions. As long as they're banks. Or do you consider Barack Obama and the various European governments which have bailed out their banks to all be socialist?
Except they're not reaping the whirlwind. They are being insulated by state funds across the world.
Actually, it was a lack of adequate laws, de-regulation lobbied for by financial institutions and implemented by well-known socialists like Margaret Thatcher and George Bush, that created the scenario we now find ourselves in.
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Wow, you really have a lot of revision to do before you are up to speed.
Chiefly in the US, but also in the UK, regulations such as the Glass-Steagall Act were removed or circumvented, allowing vast sums of money to be gambled at extremely high risk. The international unregulated capitalist system's lucky streak ran out in 2007-2008.
Huge amounts of money, equivalent to many multiples of the globe's income, were risked (due to repeal of prudent regulatory systems) on assuming that house prices would continue to rise forever, both in the USA and Ireland.
Our banks have lost 99% of their value, because they bet the entire pot on land-banks never depreciating. Under the old-fashioned regulatory regime, this would not have been allowed.
Now the regulations were done away with, the banks made a one-way bet on developer land-banks rising in price forever. They lost the bet, and now they have a black hole equal to double Ireland's GDP, from developer land-banks alone, not even counting dud mortgages.
When you see the words "Mises" or "Hayek" in someone's post, just ask yourself: do I really want to ban paper money and go back to gold?
You have to pity the kind of people who buy into conspiracy theories. I find the following to be the saddest words on the internet: "Re: connection between Bilderberg puppet lady gaga and viral outbreak in ukraine "
So the Indo warns you all about the dangers of socialism.....and you actually listen?? You actually listen to the (sir) Tony O'Reilly propaganda machine?? Back in your pen sheeple!
Last time I remember socialism being attacked in the Indo, last time I looked at that rag, was when the Wind the Shakes the Barley came out and there was a piece entitled the socialism that shakes the barley. It was complete rubbish, total hatchet job.
Look, they're worried the working class will figure out that socialism actually is the answer to the problem, which will take the wealth and power out of the hands of the elite in this society and bring it to the people. (real democracy-not one useless vote every 5 years and then ignoring the results of Lisbon etc)
Of course they can always rely on the buffer zone between the elite and the workers to talk ******************** all day long of how evil socialism is, because it upsets their priviliged place on the ladder also. (the petit burgeois, professionals like doctors, lawyers, accountants, big business and professional politicians)
At €3billion (sir) Tony O'Reilly is the wealthiest man in Ireland. Do you really think he has nothing to do with all this? Do you really think he won't do all he can to hang onto his priviliges?? The consequences are massive for him if people stop reading the crap printed in the Indo.
....of course, if you really do believe in the benevolence of the elite class that runs this country, then go back into dreamland, you're probably doing just fine.
Oh dear Hazlitt, I see many disagreements ahead between us.
DO NOT blame socialism for the mismanagement of this Government. These interventions are Keynesian policy, part of capitalist theory, not socialist theory. Also, the mismanagement in development has been due to the Govt. allowing capitalists run amok, not over regulation. They allowed private profiteers into every market they wanted without any control over what was going on. The Govt built on this year on year, more and more privitisation, no controls, no planning, they just hoped it would continue forever.
Thats not socialism. You need planning for socialism, there was no plan, and certainly if there was a plan it was not a socialist plan. It think people are confusing socialism with State Capitalism (Stalinism). They are completely different. Socialism demands democratic planning!
Look, it was capitalism done badly that got us here. Make no mistake about that. But what are you gonna do, vote FG?? No thanks! The greed caused by capitalism will inevitably lead to its ultimate demise.
last time i checked we lived in a FREE AND DEMOCRATIC country, that means that my opinion, be it up to your 'being the only one well versed and qualified to comment on politics' is not any less acceptable than anybody else. The difference between me and you is I go on the record, I publish my name, you hide behind a web-handle and play troll. nice....
And i know you've never met me, as i dont' wear ties, and you clearly don't understand my job as i don't sell property. in fact, you should perhaps check some of the published record that is closer to my true feelings and not a comment on a chat room
Top mortgage broker hopes for property crash
or the effort to help those in trouble
Help at hand to avoid repossession - Irish, Business - Independent.ie
I'm no more worthwhile than the next person, but equally i'm entitled to opinions. The anger in your post, snake-oil, whore etc.... you might want to talk to somebody....
anyway impossiblist, you'll need to come up with something better to make a valid argument. I'd like to take the time to point out some more of the sad lies in your post but i gotta go! i have burgers to flip! lol.
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