Are we reverting to Socialism again?

[20000miles]

Most of that is too funny to respond to. But I think you will find capitalism is slavery. It leaves the economy in the hands of an unelected elite capitalist class who then force the rest of us to be their wage slaves. Communism is where the people democratically control every aspect of society.

Wage slavery appears to be a hydra of sorts. No matter how many heads you cut off, you just can't kill it. Bobo, I don't there is such a thing. How would you respond to the following:

• Humankind faces starvation and death if they do not produce (ie work)
• Working for a boss is another manifestation of the situation mankind finds itself in (produce or die)
• Capitalists do not coerce anyone into working for them
• Bosses do not have a territorial monopoly on violence - so they can't keep you working for them if you don't want to
• What would happen in a socialist/communist society if one wanted to work for wages?

[Dios]

@kevin doyle: regulation is required, to the point that it stops illegal practice but of itself i don't see that it will solve anything, having 'legal system' doesn't stop people from committing crime, nor will regulation stop abuses

Regulation does stop abuses, ref Glass-Steagall act. Unlike people who break laws, companies can be dissolved into nothingness by regulatory authorities, chopped up and sold for spare parts.

[Big Bobo]

Wage slavery appears to be a hydra of sorts. No matter how many heads you cut off, you just can't kill it. Bobo, I don't there is such a thing. How would you respond to the following:

• Humankind faces starvation and death if they do not produce (ie work)
• Working for a boss is another manifestation of the situation mankind finds itself in (produce or die)
• Capitalists do not coerce anyone into working for them
• Bosses do not have a territorial monopoly on violence - so they can't keep you working for them if you don't want to
• What would happen in a socialist/communist society if one wanted to work for wages?

It is natural for human beings to work and create wealth. Society will never reach the stage where people do not wish to work. However people will object to the wages and conditions they work under. That is why some people would rather not work rather than take a job which they feel is under paid or lacks dignity. Of course the capitalist solution is to threaten people with starvation or homelessness if they will not sell their labour at a rate that will create profit.

[Edo]

everyone wants Socialism when they have nothing

The most relevant sentence in this entire thread! Kudos!

[Big Bobo]

The most relevant sentence in this entire thread! Kudos!

as Marx said

The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.

[20000miles]

It is natural for human beings to work and create wealth. Society will never reach the stage where people do not wish to work. However people will object to the wages and conditions they work under. That is why some people would rather not work rather than take a job which they feel is under paid or lacks dignity.

There's no debating this.

Of course the capitalist solution is to threaten people with starvation or homelessness if they will not sell their labour at a rate that will create profit.

I've noticed a shift in the way communists use the words "coersion" and "force". Like I said, capitalists cannot force you to work for them (in the same sense I can force you to give me your money).

[Big Bobo]

I've noticed a shift in the way communists use the words "coersion" and "force". Like I said, capitalists cannot force you to work for them (in the same sense I can force you to give me your money).

I presume you would be in favour of abolishing all welfare payments. Surely that is the same as coercing people into working for a capitalist at low wages?

[20000miles]

I presume you would be in favour of abolishing all welfare payments. Surely that is the same as coercing people into working for a capitalist at low wages?

I am in favour of abolishing State welfare. Not because I hate the poor but because the money to pay for it is collected by force.

I fail to see how welfare has anything to do with this.

Capitalists do not coerse people into working for them. The boss does not use force to get you to work for her.

[bormotello]

It is natural for human beings to work and create wealth. Society will never reach the stage where people do not wish to work.

Why not? If you don’t have to work, you can always find something interesting to do.
Have a look on rich people. For some reasons, their children are not always desperate for jobs.

However people will object to the wages and conditions they work under. That is why some people would rather not work rather than take a job which they feel is under paid or lacks dignity.

Are you saying that government must immediately offer nice, well paid, respected jobs for all welfare recipients? Preferably in top management, if it possible in directors boards.
In this case I also want to have job like this.
Problem is only where to get so many positions…

Of course the capitalist solution is to threaten people with starvation or homelessness if they will not sell their labour at a rate that will create profit.

You should stop to pay too much attention to Marx theories.
It was working long time ago. Now capitalist are more interested to have as much as possible customers for their goods and they are interested in general nation wealth.
Of coarse, they want to get their workforce as cheap as possible, but nobody is forcing people take this low-paid job. They can go for future education and become more valuable for future employer. If employer will be not able to get workforce cheaply, he will be forced to increase salaries, to attract best candidates.

[atlantic]

Who regulates the Banks? who hands out planning permission? wake up.

yeah, they should have lets the banks and developers just get on with it instead of all that interference