Anglo loaned €451m to ten clients to buy shares in the bank

[jpc]

Folks, have a look at the PWC thread. The real issue here is the bad loans. Sure the directors and Maple 10 loans are an issue but the real exposure here to the taxpayer are the bad loans which ahve not been properly quantified. I urge you to read the edited PWC report.

What is the real value of the"mothballed land banks" if you had to flog them?

[wombat]

What is the real value of the"mothballed land banks" if you had to flog them?

Probably depends on how long you can hold them for - less than agricultural value now, maybe in 10 years time, they will be useable as building land. I was in Alberta during the 80's when the oil business collapsed after a boom, it took 10 years before there were any new houses built in Edmonton - the banks repossessed so many that rents were cheap throughout the decade and it took them 10 years to flog off the backlog.

[sandar]

If its such good shape then why did the Government have to take it over?

Why are International investors shunning it?

When the Markets open on Monday will it not be quickly obvious as to whether those with money to invest now consider it to be a safe bet to put their loot into its vaults?

I am in now way an excpert on this but some observations:

The figure for directors loans is shocking in the extreme, and is bad coorporate governance, and a scandal.
But in the overall context of a buisness of this size the numbers are insignificant.
The bad debt provision in these accounts is not bad in relation to anglo's peers, even is, as has been pointed out, further writedowns inr elation to asset values are likely to become nescessary. But that does not mean anglo is a terminal case. Certainly the bank is overexposed in certain areas, and that combined with the directors loansd inddictaes a corporation that was very badly managed, managed for the short term and operating in the belief that the property bubble could last forever. In this way these anglo accounts at this time are like a parable of the irish economy as a whole.
As to the central question:
On the basis of these accounts, and only these accounts anglo does not appear top be in need of rescue, so why did a rescue happen.
Well, without breaking the DGDS rule, perhaps allegedly maybe it wasnt done to rescue the bank, it was done to rescue the golden circle who would be bankrupt if there loans were called in

[Anorakphobia]

As someone who spent over 2 years shorting Anglo I agree, Brendan Keenan is correct.
These accounts are substantially better than most had feared.
We can huff and puff about toxic this and that, the reality is that a hugely respected Independent chairman and non execs that include Alan Dukes have said the true state of Anglo's loan book right now is that 2 billion of it is in peril.
If the World and Ireland burns over the next year (and I concede that is a real possibility) then of course that figure is going to grow to some of the hysterical levels freely bandied here as "fact".
If the World burns then Anglo wont even be a footnote, AIB and BOI will be gone and their written off loans will dwarf Anglo and the majority of this country will live below the poverty line.
Donal O' Connor cannot price such an eventuality into an annual report, he can only deal with what is realistically expected.
That in the auditors and directors opinion will be in the region of 2 billion. That is pricing in a severe downturn continuing.

I also believe because the focus i so much on them, their loan book will be pursued far harder than at other banks. Think about if you are a builder who owes 500m around town, who do you pay first Michael Fingleton or the Government.
Anglo must be ruthless in pursuit of these guys, any attempt to shift assets around to evade should have the cops around immediately.

The real toxcicity in Anglo was its Chairman and a a tiny cabal of his acolytes who did his bidding.
Arrogant and greeedy gob********************es who bought into Bertie and Mc Creevy's ponzi and thought the party would last forever.
If Donal O' Connor believes he has swept all that garbage from the Bank, then (assuming Worldwide collapse can be avoided), then I believe we have a sporting chance of this bank surviving and maybe even delivering for taxpayers.

Notwithstanding the above, Fitzpatrick has to be dealt with, as does the Golden Circle.

I note what was said by Sandar but if I was to put my speculation goggles on, I'd say disclosing the Quinn quagmire is far more important.
PWC even in its full version dont appear to have a detailed explanation of this mess.
How was it allowed happen?
Why did Quinn do it?
Did S Fitz encourage Quinn to go ape buying the shares?

Have ALL loans pertaining to his 2 billion punting loss been fully repaid and if not why not?
Is Quinn one of the 500m+ and if he is he must be named as if he is any distress, the Government is helping mask the true state of the largest private insurer in the country?