Biffo for Biffo

[Spence]

Usual FF drivel. Blame it all on the global downturn. When things looked to be going well I did not hear FF say 'Its thanks to the world economic upturn'.
Cowan knows nothing about hard times...he was born into a prosperous family so no wonder he is out of touch.

True but they didn't necessarily blame the wrong people for its creation either which is at the heart of my comments.

Also it's very wrong to suggest that just because someone comes from a prosperous family they are 'out of touch'. If that was the case we would have to throw out the whole litany of Irish patriots from Wolfe Tone to Patrick Pearse.

[DeathKnell]

Ah yes Cowen is either a power hungry gombeen or lying gombeen. Either way he is an ''evil man''. That is a false dichotomy that only an idiot or someone implacably (actually more likely irrationally) opposed to Cowen to propose.

However, as you said: Cowen is a very intelligent man (which rubbishes your false dichotomy) and being intelligent in politics sometimes means you have to keep quiet in the short term in order to deliver in the long term or as the old song goes 'you got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away'. Cowen managed to see off the PD junta and the Bertie the builder/socialist/republican (let's not forget one of Cowen's first acts as leader of FF was to get rid of the Galway races Tent) but is now (because of the global downturn) having to clear up their(McCreevy, the PD junta and the Bertie) whopper of a mess.

Is the global downturn Cowen's fault?

Cowen is incompetent.. He has been promoted 3 times above his pay grade..

He rose without trace indeed. Not one thing of note can I think of that he has acheived.. Oh ya, he got rid of the tent and made a decent speech half jarred..

Kudos to you Biffo.. Its a start.. Dont really think it will be good enough in the long run..

[Spence]

He has been promoted 3 times above his pay grade..

And how in the name of holy god would know that? anonymous morons on the internet, you gotta love them. . .

[Anorakphobia]

Ah yes Cowen is either a power hungry gombeen or lying gombeen. Either way he is an ''evil man''. That is a false dichotomy that only an idiot or someone implacably (actually more likely irrationally) opposed to Cowen to propose.

However, as you said: Cowen is a very intelligent man (which rubbishes your false dichotomy) and being intelligent in politics sometimes means you have to keep quiet in the short term in order to deliver in the long term or as the old song goes 'you got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away'. Cowen managed to see off the PD junta and the Bertie the builder/socialist/republican (let's not forget one of Cowen's first acts as leader of FF was to get rid of the Galway races Tent) but is now (because of the global downturn) having to clear up their(McCreevy, the PD junta and the Bertie) whopper of a mess.

Is the global downturn Cowen's fault?

The ISEQ had collapsed by 60% by late last summer, before most countries had even started feeling pain.
International investors have been dumping Irish assets since early 2007 having spotted the whole ponzi scheme.
The credit implosion was merely the petrol on the fire.
Cowen knew we were potentially in serious trouble all through 2007 but instead went out and told lie after lie about the outlook.
He is definitely getting a disproportionate amount of the flak right now compared to the other two idiots (Mc Creevy and Ahern) but make no mistake his place in history as a key player in this utter calamity is assured.

I totally reject the usual FF argument that lying is part and parcel of the landscape of politics and in particular the politics of winning elections.
I am not naive I am a pragmatist, but will not accept the inevitability of politicians telling outrageous lies to retain power.

BTW
I did not say he was a VERY intelligent man, you did, I merely said intelligent and there is a world of difference as well you know.

If he was half the super brain you imagine, he'd have told the truth in May 2007, let FG in to face the downturn and Bertie resigns.
He'd now be sitting on the verge of a general Election with an almost certain FF overall majority.

Classy reference to Kenny Rogers!
Any doubt about your midland affiliation surely dispelled.

[greengoose]

And how in the name of holy god would know that? anonymous morons on the internet, you gotta love them. . .

We love ya!

[mollox]

Simply can't believe the sniping and nitpicking responses from the 10% this morning in response to Brian Cowen's stirring presentation to the Dublin Chamber of Commerce last evening. Those of us who were there and experienced it could but admire the performance.
No, I'm not a Biffo acolyte....never voted for him......never met him (not even last night).......never previously liked him ...........but last night he struck a chord with the people in that room.

It was a rallying cry, for sure and struck home. He said the right thing, at the right time and in the right place.
Listen, lads, ye can either join the rowers in the boat or choose to swim behind it.....for most of us it's a no-brainer.

Here's another great motivational speech, famously delivered by Col. Tim Collins to his troops on the eve of the invasion of Iraq. We all know now just how wrong he was in some key regards.

Actions speak louder than words. Biffo got us in this mess, does anyone believe he can get us out of it, particularly as he and his FF colleagues are completely incapable of saying "mea culpa", even quietly.

Col. Tim Collins speech:
"We go to liberate, not to conquer.
We will not fly our flags in their country
We are entering Iraq to free a people and the only flag which will be flown in that ancient land is their own.
Show respect for them.
There are some who are alive at this moment who will not be alive shortly.
Those who do not wish to go on that journey, we will not send.
As for the others, I expect you to rock their world.
Wipe them out if that is what they choose.
But if you are ferocious in battle remember to be magnanimous in victory.
Iraq is steeped in history.
It is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood and the birthplace of Abraham.
Tread lightly there.
You will see things that no man could pay to see
-- and you will have to go a long way to find a more decent, generous and upright people than the Iraqis.
You will be embarrassed by their hospitality even though they have nothing.
Don't treat them as refugees for they are in their own country.
Their children will be poor, in years to come they will know that the light of liberation in their lives was brought by you.
If there are casualties of war then remember that when they woke up and got dressed in the morning they did not plan to die this day.
Allow them dignity in death.
Bury them properly and mark their graves.
It is my foremost intention to bring every single one of you out alive.
But there may be people among us who will not see the end of this campaign.
We will put them in their sleeping bags and send them back.
There will be no time for sorrow.
The enemy should be in no doubt that we are his nemesis and that we are bringing about his rightful destruction.
There are many regional commanders who have stains on their souls and they are stoking the fires of hell for Saddam.
He and his forces will be destroyed by this coalition for what they have done.
As they die they will know their deeds have brought them to this place. Show them no pity.
It is a big step to take another human life.
It is not to be done lightly.
I know of men who have taken life needlessly in other conflicts.
I can assure you they live with the mark of Cain upon them.
If someone surrenders to you then remember they have that right in international law and ensure that one day they go home to their family.
The ones who wish to fight, well, we aim to please.
If you harm the regiment or its history by over-enthusiasm in killing or in cowardice, know it is your family who will suffer.
You will be shunned unless your conduct is of the highest -- for your deeds will follow you down through history.
We will bring shame on neither our uniform or our nation.
It is not a question of if, it's a question of when.
We know he has already devolved the decision to lower commanders, and that means he has already taken the decision himself.
If we survive the first strike we will survive the attack.
As for ourselves, let's bring everyone home and leave Iraq a better place for us having been there.
Our business now is North."
Col. Tim Collins

[markeys]

I find the comments here harsh on Cowens speech.

I thought it was great. And exactly what the country needs to hear. Yes he's fooked up a lot in the past, but that doesn't mean he can't give a honest, open and frank speech.
There were a lot of home truths in it and yes, some of us doom mongers are wallowing about the place. We all tend to get lost in the gloom.

More of the same Cowen and to the country as a whole!

[shannonBlueShirt]

I find the comments here harsh on Cowens speech.

I thought it was great. And exactly what the country needs to hear. Yes he's fooked up a lot in the past, but that doesn't mean he can't give a honest, open and frank speech.
There were a lot of home truths in it and yes, some of us doom mongers are wallowing about the place. We all tend to get lost in the gloom.

More of the same Cowen and to the country as a whole!

We need more that more of the same from Cowen ... a plan to create jobs and get the budget under control would be nice... his figures from this weeks cut backs dont add up to 2 Bn...

[Iarmhi Gael]

I find the comments here harsh on Cowens speech.

I thought it was great. And exactly what the country needs to hear. Yes he's fooked up a lot in the past, but that doesn't mean he can't give a honest, open and frank speech.
There were a lot of home truths in it and yes, some of us doom mongers are wallowing about the place. We all tend to get lost in the gloom.

More of the same Cowen and to the country as a whole!

I think the country needs to hear nothing, every Post Office, school yard car park, and church ground in Ireland people are saying and have said the exact same....

I think alot of the people are not disappointed with the speech, but everyone thinking we have to jump with what he said...

[Spence]

The ISEQ had collapsed by 60% by late last summer, before most countries had even started feeling pain.
International investors have been dumping Irish assets since early 2007 having spotted the whole ponzi scheme.
The credit implosion was merely the petrol on the fire.
Cowen knew we were potentially in serious trouble all through 2007 but instead went out and told lie after lie about the outlook.
He is definitely getting a disproportionate amount of the flak right now compared to the other two idiots (Mc Creevy and Ahern) but make no mistake his place in history as a key player in this utter calamity is assured.

His place is far from assured. You have no idea what went on behind the scenes. Cowen was working behind the scenes to get things done. Things take time, the crash intervened and the rest is history.As for investors dumping shares, I'm sure there are great white hopes who didn't manage to see the crash coming.

I totally reject the usual FF argument that lying is part and parcel of the landscape of politics and in particular the politics of winning elections.
I am not naive I am a pragmatist, but will not accept the inevitability of politicians telling outrageous lies to retain power.

No when ever anything about lying apart from yourself.

BTW
I did not say he was a VERY intelligent man, you did, I merely said intelligent and there is a world of difference as well you know.

Either way it still rubbishes your false dilemma.

If he was half the super brain you imagine, he'd have told the truth in May 2007, let FG in to face the downturn and Bertie resigns.
He'd now be sitting on the verge of a general Election with an almost certain FF overall majority.

That would be incredibly stupid. The point of being in politics is to hold power in order to fulfill your goals. That's rather basic.

Classy reference to Kenny Rogers!
Any doubt about your midland affiliation surely dispelled.

It was sampled by Wyclef Jean. Maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusions. Idiots jump to conclusions.