Quality of IT graduates not good enough.

[Oriel27]

I wouldnt like to be coming fresh out of college now these days. having no working experience is a bit of a vicious circle. firstly you cant be expected to have experience, and then every job going you have to have experience in working.
So what does graduates do?

[Schuhart]

But, as seen in the original piece, the problem is that Dublin can't get the quality of graduates it needs. We're allowing graduates from Cork, Limerick and Galway to leave the country and complaining about a lack of graduates in Dublin. It's time for slightly more joined up thinking.

Indeed, but wouldn't that join-up simply involve those graduates converging on Dublin instead of London? Because we don't exactly have a choice as to where companies will want to locate, particularly in the current climate.

I mean, I take it you accept that considerable efforts are made to attract multi-nationals to locate outside Dublin. This actually reached comic proportions when Paypal reputedly threatened to just locate in another country in the face of IDA arm-twisting to go anywhere but Dublin.

I accept that you're not going to get firms that require skilled graduates to locate anywhere other than the main university cities.

Indeed, but surely you'll appreciate that just as firms would tend to locate in London rather than Dublin, they'll tend to locate in Dublin rather than Galway (and Galway rather than Castlebar).

And this is even before we get to the point of asking if attracting in multinationals is a viable strategy in any event. I mean, we're in no position to turn any jobs away at the moment. But surely the cosy picture of a Multinational snoozing away beside a regional IT, employing all their graduates forever, is unrealistic.

It's not just the IDA that provide incentives.

So what is at issue? I don't particularly follow.

I think the point with London is that there is no formal policy to encourage people into London, while over the years, we've seen a variety of ways (IFSC, Digital Hub etc.) that has pushed investment into Dublin.

I don't recognise this as describing the reality of our situation. London certainly has a strategy of positioning itself as a major world financial centre, and they don't seem to be planning to require a portion of Heathrow transatlantic flights to stop at Prestwick any time soon.

IFSC is simply an example of an initiative that could not have worked as well anywhere else in the State. While financial services were a good thing, it brought a chunk of that to Ireland. The Digital Hub (iirc) was just a failure.

On the other hand, you surely cannot seriously deny the immense efforts made to divert investment into the regions.

To be honest, one of the major problems in attracting major IT employers to Cork is the lack of suitable office space and if the Cork Docklands had been given the same tax status as the Dublin ones, it would have gone some way to addressing the issue.

I cannot claim to be an expert on property development, but my picture was that urban renewal tax incentives were available all over the place. I've a dim feeling that they even applied to developments in places like Longford town.

I'm not particularly aware of any tax concession given specifically to the Dublin docklands - although clearly I'm open to correction, as I'm no expert. My picture of the Dublin docklands initiative was that it drew its funding from income on its properties - things like charges for use of the Grand Canal marina. I'd query (but don't know) if your picture of tax incentives is correct.

But, to conclude, is it fair to say I have a point? The thought that we should actually encourage concentration on Dublin so that it might develop (on a smaller scale, obviously) the kind of opportunities available in London sparks opposition. Given the choice between Dublin and London, many of us would actually choose London.

I'm not saying there's anything particularly wrong with that. I just think we need to get that out there, and see where it takes us. Even if that somewhere is back into the UK, because otherwise we're just wasting each others time by pretending to be part of something that we really don't believe in.

[evercloserunion]

I agree with the posters that the problem lies with secondary curriculum and teaching methods - how are we supposed to produce good IT graduates when you can get on an HONOURS computing course with less than 250 points these days( the average LC student gets about 320 points, so it's possible that people with below average IQ are entering honours courses and graduating from them ! - in the light of this the currency of these degrees must be debased in minds of overseas IT companies.

Points requirements are largely a function of supply and demand, the problem is that demand is too low because 2nd level institutions do nothing to educate students in IT, or even to arouse their interest.

[Watcher1]

Seems the myth about Ireland being the software captial of Europe is now being exposed. Google could not find suitable people to fill 100 positions.

RTÉ Business: Software chief's warning on graduates

hahahaha "software capital of Europe" that one always made me laugh. I think it was "IT" cpaital but we wont split hairs. Yes, the quality of our graduates are tops because our education system is tops. It's tops because we are the wealthiest country in Europe and our government has spent billions on our education system.

[locke]

Where the hell are you dragging Prestwick into this from? I've in no way suggested the Shannon stopover as a way of getting investment into the regions.

What I think people would like to see is a levelling of the playing field. Prior to 2006, the IFSC was given major tax advantages (lower corporation tax, no withholding tax) compared to other locations statewide. Strangely enough, the EU approved incentives for Cork Docklands and yet the government didn't put them in place. They didn't even manage to build the bridge that was required.

And the nationwide tax incentives were for residential property. You might notice I said there was a lack of suitable office space.

At this point, after a long period of unfilled vacancies in Dublin, it should be clear that few of those graduates are Dublin-bound. The choice is between looking for ways to retain them in the regions or letting them emigrate.

[Wakeupcall]

I was in third year at seconrdy school. I was working in a web development firm and had no previous training. Learned everything myself the year previous.

The firm I worked for took college graduates or college students in their final year.

I worked with about 15 - 20 of these grads... They wasted my time having to be shown how to do the things that they were supposedly "trained" to do. Perhaps I didnt have time to party? Either way, they were s-h-i-i-t-e. Now I am not being harsh, some of these people didnt know the basics of what they were supposed to know, the fundamentals.

Not all grads are s-hite ofc, but all of the ones I had to deal with were terrible... Maybe this is why I decided that education was a waste of time for me and let rip from there...

Recession? For the groomed perhaps...

[Schuhart]

Where the hell are you dragging Prestwick into this from? I've in no way suggested the Shannon stopover as a way of getting investment into the regions.

What I'm trying to do is get you to recognise the very obvious traditional policy bias against Dublin. Recall the context. You are suggesting no particular effort is made to promote London, which is why the 2012 Olympics are being held in Norwich.

Dublin gets investment despite, and not because of, strenuous efforts to divert investment elsewhere in the State. This does contrast with the attitude of other States, although I wouldn't particularly choose London as a comparision as its a much larger city.

What I think people would like to see is a levelling of the playing field. Prior to 2006, the IFSC was given major tax advantages (lower corporation tax, no withholding tax) compared to other locations statewide.

Well, this was for a particular defined purpose which was successful. That special tax regime is now gone (and has been for a while) so any firm in any industry anywhere in the State gets exactly the same tax deal. So this doesn't really work as an example of a sustained policy of concentrating investment in Dublin.

Strangely enough, the EU approved incentives for Cork Docklands and yet the government didn't put them in place. They didn't even manage to build the bridge that was required.

I simply don't know any of the details of that. But I take it you are not suggesting that Dublin received any priority in transport infrastructure, seeing as how the process of retrofitting the city has hardly started.

And the nationwide tax incentives were for residential property. You might notice I said there was a lack of suitable office space.

Indeed, and I'm trying to find out what tax incentives you are referring to that were particularly aimed at encouraging the provision of office space in Dublin, and which did not apply elsewhere. As I said, I thought the Dockland development company generated its own income - but I'm frankly admitting that this is only my impression, and I'm open to you explaining where I'm wrong.

At this point, after a long period of unfilled vacancies in Dublin, it should be clear that few of those graduates are Dublin-bound. The choice is between looking for ways to retain them in the regions or letting them emigrate.

Well, I'm not confident that is the upshot. I am confident that your statement retain them in the regions or letting them emigrate confirms exactly what I said above.

The thought that we should actually encourage concentration on Dublin so that it might develop (on a smaller scale, obviously) the kind of opportunities available in London sparks opposition. Given the choice between Dublin and London, many of us would actually choose London.

Isn't this simply the case? London is the real capital for many people nominally living in the Irish Republic.

[Shanagarry]

I agree with the posters that the problem lies with secondary curriculum and teaching methods - how are we supposed to produce good IT graduates when you can get on an HONOURS computing course with less than 250 points these days( the average LC student gets about 320 points, so it's possible that people with below average IQ are entering honours courses and graduating from them ! - in the light of this the currency of these degrees must be debased in minds of overseas IT companies.

I remember there was uproar a few years ago when DCU wanted to set a floor on the points for their computer applications course. It wasn't long after the tech bubble and IT courses had fallen out of favour after they had increased places substantially in the previous years to meet demand, so the points were in freefall. Their argument was that in most cases those people coming in with sub 300 (I think that was the cut off they wanted) points just were not able for the course.

[seabhcan]

I remember there was uproar a few years ago when DCU wanted to set a floor on the points for their computer applications course. It wasn't long after the tech bubble and IT courses had fallen out of favour after they had increased places substantially in the previous years to meet demand, so the points were in freefall. Their argument was that in most cases those people coming in with sub 300 (I think that was the cut off they wanted) points just were not able for the course.

Why didn't they?

The standard way to increase points is to reduce the number of places on the course. Nothing stopping them do that.

Most likely they wanted to get in the media, and then do nothing which might reduce numbers.

[KingKane]

No - Analog Devices, and in 2001.

This isn't linkedin folks so perhaps you could do this by pm?