impact of economic downturn on immigration issue

[Oblivion]

I find conflict very draining, but I have never, ever backed down from confronting anyone and everyone in the workplace.

You sound like a bundle of laughs.

It's always been like that, but now that I'm married to an immigrant, it has an edge.

Or, put another way, now that you're married to an immigrant, you have your own agenda.

Fact: 99.4% of Nigerian asylum claims in Ireland are found to be bogus.

If thousands of Nigerians are attempting to scam the Irish asylum system - which they are - there is nothing remotely "racist" about highlighting that. If people are getting pissed off because they see high levels of immigration continuing, even as jobs are being lost every day, they have every right to voice their concerns. They have every right to be angry.

If you don't want to hear people's honest opinions about mass immigration, that's just tough I'm afraid. You can have as many arguments at the workplace as you like, people aren't blind - they can see what's going on. And they aren't going to be silenced by self-righteous idiots with a guilt complex. The emotional blackmail reached its expiry date, the moment the economy went down the drain.

[Hazlitt]

Am i wrong? We're part of the EU, by law there's nothing stopping millions of people from travelling, working and living in Ireland?

I personally have no objection to anyone coming here, provided they don't just come here, apply for free housing, sign up for welfare, then sit around. If they come, and are willing to work to improve their lot, then live and let live. That's just my opinion.

[Twin Towers]

Are the Polish not bound by the same agreement that allows their citizens to come and work here freely, ie any Irish person that wants to travel to Poland for work can do so?

Fat chance you have of working in Poland if you dont speak Polish. The whole free movement of workers idea was a swizz against the English speaking countries to begin and Europe knew it.

[advertismo]

Anyone thinking of emigrating,Poland may not be the best port of call!

Work Permits to Poland

A foreign resident who is interested in working in Poland must obtain a work permit and a working visa.
A work permit is granted in Poland subject to an examination to verify that it is in respect of skilled work that is not prejudicial to local employment.
In addition, on the basis of the work permit, an application must be made for a working visa.
Approval of the working visa will be granted only outside Poland. If the employee is in Poland, he must leave Poland to obtain the visa.
The working visa will remain valid for a maximum of one year with an option to extend it, as required.

The poles are bang on the money if you ask me!

{Quote DIOS - ''Are the Polish not bound by the same agreement that allows their citizens to come and work here freely, ie any Irish person that wants to travel to Poland for work can do so? ''}

Presumably they have period of exemption.
The whole free-movement of workers across the EU was and is a bloody awful, destructive idea; serving only IBEC lobbyists and speculators. If there was any real shortage of workers in particualr industries this should have been met only with a system of temporary visas. What the F. did they think the Poles were going to work at once they had finished building houses for themselves ?
It was a policy of indefinite population growth that FF scum were pursuing, and will continue as soon as the climate once again proves suitable to this end. The mere fact that we are receiving less immigrant traffic is no reason to leave this breach open.

How many failed asylum seekers have had been granted leave to remain via duration of their presence here, which was extended through deportation evasion & appeals ? The government's failure to act here was deliberate and well-planned.
An immediate cancellation of right to asylum in Ireland should be made, and a further cancellation of rights to reside here should be made retrospectively across all those who had their initial application refused. No right to appeal should be given.

A strict limit should be applied to the duration of time for which a non-citizen, after working here, is eligible for benefit payments. The absurd payment of childrens allowance for dependents residing outside the State should cease immediately.
The state should exempt itself from the EU's free-movement agreements, and no offer of employment should be made to any foreigner where there is a suitably qualified Irish man or woman available for the position.
The State exists for it's people, not vice-versa, and the people in this case refers to the Irish and no others.

[the impossibilist]

You sound like a bundle of laughs.



Or, put another way, now that you're married to an immigrant, you have your own agenda.

Fact: 99.4% of Nigerian asylum claims in Ireland are found to be bogus.

If thousands of Nigerians are attempting to scam the Irish asylum system - which they are - there is nothing remotely "racist" about highlighting that. If people are getting pissed off because they see high levels of immigration continuing, even as jobs are being lost every day, they have every right to voice their concerns. They have every right to be angry.

If you don't want to hear people's honest opinions about mass immigration, that's just tough I'm afraid. You can have as many arguments at the workplace as you like, people aren't blind - they can see what's going on. And they aren't going to be silenced by self-righteous idiots with a guilt complex. The emotional blackmail reached its expiry date, the moment the economy went down the drain.

Get your facts straight.

Firstly - I have never supported or defended an immigration policy carried out without any reference to the thoughts, much less wishes, of the Irish people. On the contrary. I can link if you insist.

The OP said I felt very uneasy at the language & tone being used.

Without needing to check what was meant literally in this instance, let's be clear - there is a lot of discussion in the workplace that is conducted in very unsavoury terms - ''black bastards'', ''******************************s'', ''Paki bastards'', and so forth. Fact.

It is not self-righteous or guilt-ridden to attack any of that. Or at least, that is my belief, and ''it's always been like that''. Probably would be even if I hadn't experienced life as an immigrant myself. Not that I ever had a problem anyway.

Being married to an immigrant (Polish) doesn't change that, or make an agenda as you so casually imply. The ''edge'' is when your other half comes home having been told to ''go back to your own country, you're taking an Irish person's job''. As if. And whether you like it or not. Can you see that ?

The issue is not with factual speak, nor even xenophobic opinion, though I reserve the right to guilt-free call that stupid. And that does lead to conflict because people just throw out lazy, third-hand insults about ''self-righteous guilt complexes''. Boring.

I have never posted on here in contradiction of facts and figures presented on this subject. And I have never accused anybody here of being racist for doing so. Or can you link me ?

It works both ways of course. A Nigerian guy I worked with told me he was just here long enough to get a passport, so that he could immediately head for Canada.

I let him know. Which can be equally fraught with problems (as I'm sure you can believe).

But it is crazy for a person to be so intimidated in their workplace, and it is not necessary.

Your post is so full of lazy assumptions, just ridiculous.

[Tiernanator]

I have great sympathy for anyone who leaves there home country to seek employment in another land sure isn't it the story of the Irish people from the Industrial revolution onwards. However I also feel that given the economic downturn non-skilled or lesser skilled non EU foreign workers should be given their marching orders and sent home until the economy picks up again.

I also feel that the EU needs to be reformed to allow governments to make adjustments to their national laws regarding migrants from other EU countries during recessions or upturns in the economy. This would benefit those who seek employment in other countries in the good times and at the same time defuse the right wing racist propagandists who seek to blame foreigners for the state of the economy. We heard it all before with the Nazis in Germany and look where that led.

As a Sinn Féin member I feel that we should be welcoming to others but not at the expense of our own nationals. I truly believe in the notion of "Ourselves" that our party was formed to protect and extol. I would hope the right wing posters on this thread would save their vitriol for the bankers who caused the problems and the unbridled capitalist system that allowed them to do so and not focus their bile on ordinary people seeking a living.

Sensible migration policies 100% Yes. Racism and bigotry 100% No.

[FutureTaoiseach]

A8 (Accession) Nationals (Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Slovenia) and citizens of the UK, Sweden, Ireland, Malta and Cyprus are welcome to live and work in Poland without a visa or work permit.
Poland Visa And Work Permit Information At Anywork Anywhere

Maybe. But few are going to do so given their relative poverty in comparison with our living-standards. It isn't really a fair comparison to make.

[Trampas]

Fat chance you have of working in Poland if you dont speak Polish. The whole free movement of workers idea was a swizz against the English speaking countries to begin and Europe knew it.

But we can't really blame the EU for the scale of the East European invasion. The blame lies squarely with Brian Cowen who as Minister for Foreign Affairs recklessly threw open our labour market in June 2001 just days after the rejection of Nice 1. He did so without knowing what other members of the EU-15 would do. Indeed in issuing that invitation he assumed that the UK labour market would be closed. If we had applied the (up to) 7 year derogation like most others then the East European immigrants would be much more widely dispersed, and of course any labour shortages here could have been filled through a modified system of work permits.

[FutureTaoiseach]

But we can't really blame the EU for the scale of the East European invasion. The blame lies squarely with Brian Cowen who as Minister for Foreign Affairs recklessly threw open our labour market in June 2001 just days after the rejection of Nice 1. He did so without knowing what other members of the EU-15 would do. Indeed in issuing that invitation he assumed that the UK labour market would be closed. If we had applied the (up to) 7 year derogation like most others then the East European immigrants would be much more widely dispersed, and of course any labour shortages here could have been filled through a modified system of work permits.

We can blame the EU. The Accession treaties had to pass the European Parliament as well as the member states. EU membership grants visa-free travel throughout the EU - including for nationals of countries affected by the transitional measures limiting labour-market access. As such, nationals of the Accession states - including Romania and Bulgaria - have had the right to travel here since 2004 and 2007 (in the case of the latter 2 countries), while we allowed the EU-10 nationals to work here straight away. We introduced restrictions for the latter 2 countries, but as EU law requires we allow self-employed nationals of those states to come here, a loophole exists that has been exploited to allow employers to pay nationals of those countries effectively below the minimum-wage. The EU collectively is responsible for the legal framework in which all this can take place, so it is mostly to blame.

[teachertime]

...Is the Indian blueshirt Varadkar still pushing the idea of giving 6 months dole money to immigrants who have lost their job and are likely to be going home anyway?