Forgive my ignorance....

[Libero]

The big thing now is if there is strikes- the public unions will not get cross wide public support.
Everyone knows there pay levels and relative job security for permanent employees which is not enjoyed as a n average across the private sector.

[FONT=Arial]The thing is, public support for strikes is, from the point of view of the strikers, a bonus rather than a necessity.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]And you might find that large sections of the public will be screaming for the government to effectively give in, if the strikes result in the shutting down of health services, social welfare payments (including pensions), transport, education and even an Garda Siochana. That’s not to mention family members of those in the public sector.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]As for MikeTV and his civil servant colleagues not thinking of striking, let’s see how long that feeling lasts when Uncle Brian delivers a €3,000+ cut to those earning €50,000.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]I’m not a public servant but let’s have a bit less of the “sacrifice” talk directed at them. Those taking pay cuts in the private sector are largely only doing it under pain of losing their job, not out of a sense of digging deep to save their company. We don’t have a deep well of social solidarity in Ireland, and the public sector will only ever accept significant wage cuts under threat of the IMF.[/FONT]

[Kevin Doyle]

[FONT=Arial]The thing is, public support for strikes is, from the point of view of the strikers, a bonus rather than a necessity.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]And you might find that large sections of the public will be screaming for the government to effectively give in, if the strikes result in the shutting down of health services, social welfare payments (including pensions), transport, education and even an Garda Siochana. That’s not to mention family members of those in the public sector.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]As for MikeTV and his civil servant colleagues not thinking of striking, let’s see how long that feeling lasts when Uncle Brian delivers a €3,000+ cut to those earning €50,000.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]I’m not a public servant but let’s have a bit less of the “sacrifice” talk directed at them. Those taking pay cuts in the private sector are largely only doing it under pain of losing their job, not out of a sense of digging deep to save their company. We don’t have a deep well of social solidarity in Ireland, and the public sector will only ever accept significant wage cuts under threat of the IMF.[/FONT]

I would much prefer agreement as opposed to the spectre of the IMF which would spell ruin for the country in my view.

There no real talks of strikes in the public sector yet but that can change very quickly if the Taoiseach announces across the board cuts in double percentages.

You are right that public support is a luxury but not a necessity for Strike action and a lot of the 'bring it on' brigade seem content with the chaos a general strike would cause. You are also right that the PS and their families represent an enormous voting block that is certainly not lost on the Government in its dealings with the Unions (a fact borne out by FGs proposals which in the face of it appear quite reasonable)

That aside, I would prefer to avoid a strike at all costs. It could potentially damage the Irish economy severely in the short to mid term and destroy the stability partnership brought which was a big incentive for investment in the first place.

I would agree to a 5% pay cut (this has the immediate effect of lowering the pensions bill by the same amount) with a sliding scale increasing for the higher paid. I would cut all overtime and expenses, per diems and over night allowances. I would means test the Children’s allowance-maybe using AIW as cut off point. Increase incomes taxes and widen the bands. A property tax on second homes and holiday homes. Close all tax loops and cut all incentives that are not directly linked to real and verifiable benefits to the economy as a whole. I would immediately reverse the nationalisation of Anglo. I would change the rules on Private sector pensions allowing cash strapped SMEs to use the capital in the short term to stimulate their business.

I would drag the chainstores (we all know the culprits) to the table and demand immediate action on the ridiculous cost of living here and threaten punitive taxes if the rip off continues.

The last thing that should happen is a strike, the very last thing. We need cool heads and a real sense of unity in tackling this not hyperbole and sound bites that Eddie Hobbs shot off last night in an attempt to appear outraged. It was a sickening display of faux anger from a guy who is no stranger to receiving large amounts of public money (even as he sat there indignantly attacking the public sector) and who most certainly will not have to suffer the pain.

[Mike TV]

As for MikeTV and his civil servant colleagues not thinking of striking, let’s see how long that feeling lasts when Uncle Brian delivers a €3,000+ cut to those earning €50,000.[/FONT]

I can only speak for myself and the colleagues I have discussed this with but 3K from 50K is a 6% cut , which I think most people will accept. If he gets into double digits that may be a different story.
I would prefer a direct cut on gross salary rather than this pension levy business.

[Kevin Doyle]

.
I would prefer a direct cut on gross salary rather than this pension levy business.

As I would, it represents a double saving. But ask yourself, who benefits most from Pensions remaining the same? Wouldn't be recently retired Politicians by any chance?

[PhoenixIreland]

Ok, lets stop and breate for a second:

first of all:

http://www.politics.ie/economy/42307...-collapse.html

second of all, did anyone seriously beleive the Unions would agree to the nessicary levels of cuts? they could only ever agree to something that stopped far short of that.

as for strikes, besides nurses, when was the last sustained public sector strike in Ireland and what was the outcome?

[Dios]

second of all, did anyone seriously beleive the Unions would agree to the nessicary levels of cuts? they could only ever agree to something that stopped far short of that.

There really are a lot of areas where savings could be made outside public sector pay. Anything to do with housing or propping up the property market for a start. Not that I'm saying start handing out free passes, but the government seems to be determined to exacerbate and try to bull through an already messy situation.

[PhoenixIreland]

There really are a lot of areas where savings could be made outside public sector pay. Anything to do with housing or propping up the property market for a start. Not that I'm saying start handing out free passes, but the government seems to be determined to exacerbate and try to bull through an already messy situation.

Oh believe me, I agree, I'm sure there are plenty of other ways to make savings, but the p.ie silver bullet solution to this problem (theres one on this site for every problem) is public sector pay cuts, in this insance the govt agrees, everyone seems to agree....but they're not doing it.

I do not beleive the Irish Unions, after so long rolling over to have their bellys rubbed, are going to go off on mass strikes, I doubt their leaders even remember how it's done.

[H.R. Haldeman]

Ok, lets stop and breate for a second:

first of all:

http://www.politics.ie/economy/42307...-collapse.html

second of all, did anyone seriously beleive the Unions would agree to the nessicary levels of cuts? they could only ever agree to something that stopped far short of that.

as for strikes, besides nurses, when was the last sustained public sector strike in Ireland and what was the outcome?

Honestly, at a point last night, yes I did. God bless my naivity. I just thought that when the 11th hour ticked around and the abyss loomed, that everyone would do their patriotic duty. More fool me.