Forgive my ignorance....

[PhoenixIreland]

Perhaps seeking a consensus first is a good idea? Maybe dictating a pay cut and the mass public service Strikes that would follow is a bad thing so they are looking to get agreement on it first.

Just a wild theory I thought I'd throw out there.

Yes, I wished for consesus too, then I looked at the figures and realized there is not a snowballs chance in hell of ICTU agreeing to any plan that could possibly work because the cuts would be so deep.

Any consensus plan would mean an ineffective plan, anything ICTU agreed to would have to be so diluted it would be totally ineffective.

and this isn't France, Irish unions have no balls, they've been in business and govt pockets (with a few exceptions) for 20 years now, they will not engage in a sustained strike.
Mass strike? In Ireland? get real

[Sandrita]

Strike? In this weather?

[patslatt]

...but why is the government bothering to talk to IBEC and ICTU? How long have these talks been gong on?

Why are they negotiating with them? Why don't they just do what they think needs to be done, be decisive?

If they don't like the govts plan, IBEC can't do anything except moan, and the last 10 years have demonstrated that Irish Unions are incapable of a sustained strike and are mostly hot air and empty threats.

So whats the hold up to announcing a plan?

A political commentator noted a few years ago that Fianna Fail was surprisingly close to unions,often closer even than the Labour Party which is affiliated with unions. This was an understatement as under Bertie,former union leader,the government conspired with the public sector unions to loot the private sector by agreeing to wildly overpaid pay demands under the benchmarking con trick. In a payoff for FF,the gratitude of union members helped it to remain the dominant political party in the last general election.

Unfortunately for the government,benchmarking and gold plated,unfunded pensions made the public sector pay bill unmanageable. So now the government must appease the elephant in the room-its paymaster,the bond market,without whose loans the government would collapse.

For once in a generation,the government is being forced to provide strong,decisive economic leadership,no matter how unpopular. The default position of ducking and diving the hard economic decisions would make government borrowing difficult at punitive interest rates with disastrous consequences.It could lead to a massive run on the Irish banks,followed by an IMF rescue,including slash and burn cuts in government,including massive job cuts, cuts in social welfare, numerous closures of small and medium hospitals etc

[Outlander]

I've heard Biffo called many things - very occasioally he gets to be compared with a bull in a china shop. Most often he is referred to as a bullock. This perhaps is apt, as it shows that even the general populace, even those who have never been down to the farm, realise that he has been visited by misfortune.

Unfortunately his misfortune now seems contagious.

The only up-side to this is that bullocks are only good for the mart.

[H.R. Haldeman]

In a time of crisis you need your best and the brightest working on the problem, so it's only natural that David Begg and Turlough O'Sullivan would be involved.

[Libero]

Perhaps seeking a consensus first is a good idea? Maybe dictating a pay cut and the mass public service Strikes that would follow is a bad thing so they are looking to get agreement on it first.

Just a wild theory I thought I'd throw out there.

Well, there seems to be a popular view on these boards that dictating terms is somehow a form of brave, visionary leadership, even when it predictably leads to a general strike that the government cannot win.

This government had little chance of securing agreement, and has no chance of facing down strike action.

It's a government that lacks credibility, having overseen the madness of the boom years. Being asked to take a pay cut by those chancers is a bit much for anyone.
And it's a government that is visibly lacking in energy and political support. Easy meat for striking unions.

I think we need a change of government before anyone should get all high and mighty about how the government should simply make cuts without agreement. Having a change of government would make it easier to reach agreement!

[Dubliner]

Nobody can stop them if they just steamroll cuts in public sector pay/tax increases through.So why are they pretending to care what IBEC and ICTU think?

They wanted to see what ICTU would offer. Now they'll take that and slap on a paycut too.

[Mike TV]

Is the delay in cuts supposed to be costing €5 million a day in extra borrowing. I can't understand why the goverenment did not make a decision weeks ago and stick with it.

[smitchy2]

The big thing now is if there is strikes- the public unions will not get cross wide public support.
Everyone knows there pay levels and relative job security for permanent employees which is not enjoyed as a n average across the private sector.

[Mike TV]

The big thing now is if there is strikes- the public unions will not get cross wide public support.
Everyone knows there pay levels and relative job security for permanent employees which is not enjoyed as a n average across the private sector.

I don't think there will be strikes. I am a civil servant and from discussing with my colleagues, there is no talk of strikes.