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Thread: Constructive proposals on rescuing the public finances

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Regular junketman's Avatar
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    Constructive proposals on rescuing the public finances

    Ok we have established that the government are out of their depth and don't have a clue what to do. We have also established they don't understand the seriousness of the situation and they are only capable of day to day planning and have no long term vision on how to turn around the state of the public finances.

    First of all, the borrowing that Cowen/Lenihan plan is simply unsustainable. 12 billion this year, 18 billion more than likely next year and if they continue at being as useless as they have done, probably 25 billion the year after, that will be an addition of 55 billion to the national debt, leading to probably 5 billion a year cost to service it.

    Being in government is not simply about writing budgets and not caring how big the deficits are. This government has no imagination and doesn’t have a real policy to substantially raise tax income by creating jobs and reduce tax spend by decreasing the cost of the public sector.

    There is no reason to believe we will return to anything approaching an even budget if we wait for ‘international conditions’ to improve. The general consensus is that the stock market highs of a few years ago will not be repeated probably for decades, that the apparent wealth was just that, apparent and had no substance and we are into a long period of economic difficulties. So if we don’t start cutting back now, we only build up billions of debt, with no economic improvement to pay off the debt. The sooner we substantially cut the expenditure of government the better. The best paid in the PS should suffer the most.

    My first suggestion is that TDs take a 20% paycut and a payfreeze after that. These feckers, I want to call them worse but it wud be censored, have lead us into the mess and rewarded themselves with year on year increases. In no way could their performance merit a pay increase.

    Secondly there needs to be a cull of top civil and public servants, they need to be handed their P45, they just don’t deliver value for money for the state, they are not frontline or even essential and are only in their jobs because of union protection.

    Third, borrowing over 10 billion a year should not be allowed and cuts must be made to bring borrowing within that. A government that fails to bring the deficit below 10 billion annually should be judged an incompetent one, that should be the rule of thumb from now on. Our government must immediately set itself that target rather than letting the finances slide uncontrollably.

    Fourth. The unions in the PS need to be told where to go. Everything is on the table in terms of restucturing and paycuts in the PS as well as a cull of non essential staff particularly at the top end. If the unions go on strike, jail their leaders.

    The EU must also be told where to go. WE cannot afford to pay social welfare for non-irish people so these people should be sent back to their home countries. We also may need to bail out struggling companies such as Waterford Crystal. 1000 people signing on the dole and the loss of foreign income and tax from such a company would not be sustainable for the country. Bail them out in the short term, tell them to cut wages and let them pay us back in the long run.

    The country is going down the tubes a lot of it caused by strict EU rules and the EU haven’t lifted one finger to help us. Its time we told them where to go and help ourselves.

    Other suggestions are welcome on this thread and I hope the government takes on board the policies proposed since they seem short on their own ones other than to let matters be.

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member spidermom's Avatar
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    Turn the lights off for a start!

    Revealed: how Dail burns cash - Times Online


    Won't save us all the money we're going to need BUT???

    There is obviously no BER required for these buildings!!!
    Behind every great man is a woman rolling her eyes.
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    Politics.ie Regular wombat's Avatar
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    Whatever its faults, I think we are better off in the EU than outside it. We need to examine every part of govt. spending and decide if it is necessary - this needs to include both capital and current spending. If you are doing a job which doesn't need to be done, its tough but you need to lose it. I'm thinking of Dept. of Agriculture vets working on animal health schemes, basket weaving courses in the ITs and the biggest waste of all, RTE.
    If engineers were wrong as often as economists, would anyone fly aeroplanes?

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    There are countless millions spent on renting empty buildings,much of it related to the decentralisation fiasco.Is there any way of legally terminating these long term contracts?

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Regular southwestkerry's Avatar
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    How to save money !!!

    Scrap all civil services expense's including all TD's that well help a bit.
    Advances in any field are built upon people with the small or personal view. Give Israel Your support, it needs it.

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    Politics.ie Regular fiannafuddy's Avatar
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    An even budget, apparently, is not good for a country if it doesn't occur naturally. An economics lecturer once told us that you should run deficits when you need to and surplus when you have it....we've been running the surplus for a while, now we have to run the deficits.

    I would however see the need to minimise the deficit.

    Take a scalpel to the public service...not just cutting for the sake of it.

    Make anyone who has missed more than 40 days in the last 3 years redundant. Then there might be someone on the other end of the phone at Revenue a bit faster than the 20 minute wait.

    I'm no expert on public service pensions, but they should be brought in line with the private sector.

    All staff on the public paybill earning:
    • over 200,000 to take a 30% paycut
    • over 150,000 to take a 25% paycut
    • over 110,000 to take a 20% paycut
    • over 80,000 to take a 10% paycut
    • over 50,000 to take a 5% paycut
    • over 35,000 to take a 2.5% paycut


    Begin a public works programme....power stations, schools (more), roads, parks, public sports amenities, city centre regeneration.

    There's lots more I'm sure, but nothing that comes to mind immediately.
    Woop Woop

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Regular Colonel Kurtz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by junketman View Post

    The country is going down the tubes a lot of it caused by strict EU rules and the EU haven’t lifted one finger to help us. Its time we told them where to go and help ourselves.

    Other suggestions are welcome on this thread and I hope the government takes on board the policies proposed since they seem short on their own ones other than to let matters be.
    Gimme a break - we voted FF. We get what we deserve. Don't blame the EU.

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Regular southwestkerry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiannafuddy View Post
    An even budget, apparently, is not good for a country if it doesn't occur naturally. An economics lecturer once told us that you should run deficits when you need to and surplus when you have it....we've been running the surplus for a while, now we have to run the deficits.

    I would however see the need to minimise the deficit.

    Take a scalpel to the public service...not just cutting for the sake of it.

    Make anyone who has missed more than 40 days in the last 3 years redundant. Then there might be someone on the other end of the phone at Revenue a bit faster than the 20 minute wait.

    I'm no expert on public service pensions, but they should be brought in line with the private sector.

    All staff on the public paybill earning:
    • over 200,000 to take a 30% paycut
    • over 150,000 to take a 25% paycut
    • over 110,000 to take a 20% paycut
    • over 80,000 to take a 10% paycut
    • over 50,000 to take a 5% paycut
    • over 35,000 to take a 2.5% paycut


    Begin a public works programme....power stations, schools (more), roads, parks, public sports amenities, city centre regeneration.

    There's lots more I'm sure, but nothing that comes to mind immediately.

    Would any one in FF listen to you... their lies the problum their all spaced out. Good ideas mind you.
    Advances in any field are built upon people with the small or personal view. Give Israel Your support, it needs it.

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Regular wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiannafuddy View Post
    Begin a public works programme....power stations, schools (more), roads, parks, public sports amenities, city centre regeneration.

    There's lots more I'm sure, but nothing that comes to mind immediately.
    You forgot follies and monuments to Queen Victoria on hilltops.
    If engineers were wrong as often as economists, would anyone fly aeroplanes?

  10. #10
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    -Plead inability to pay the public sector wage bill. - This is likely to be done.

    -Get a value-for-money audit of the public sector. - An Bord Snip (nua) is in the process of doing this as we speak, I believe.

    -Lower the rate of tax paid by people on the lower tax band. Incomes on that level are spent much faster and to a far greater degree than the top tax band.

    -Pledge to complete all major infrastructure works. Maybe with the exception of the Metro, which I fear could be a monumental black hole for money and currently costs as much as about ten Luas lines.

    -It's not going to put a dent in the deficit but slash the wages that ministers recieve.

    -Put the President on the air with a cross-party approved message to the Irish people. This is a national crisis and a bit of pulling together (or feeling like we are doing so) could do no harm to our beleagured national morale.
    "Unless you are an absolute pacifist, then you acknowledge that there are times when taking up arms is appropriate."
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