Give and Take For Public sector Pay cuts!

[Rebel CNC]

But aren't there circa 2 million people at work? If the tax take increases across the board won't that be more equitable?

That'll happen too - however you get into diminishing returns after a while. If the government raised income tax tomorrow, a huge amount of the increased revenue would be lost on VAT and other duties.


FF are trying to ignore it and hope the problem magically disappears but huge savings will need to be found in day to day spending.

Essentially Bertie wasted what was a once off windfall tax (from construction boom) by throwing it at spending which still exists after the windfall revenues have dried up.

It was a huge opportunity to build and improve schools, hospitals, broadband infrastructure and other items which would have improved quality of life for this and future generations but instead FF threw it at the benchmarking process and got very little in return.

Basically, FF wasted what could have been a fine legacy in a grubby vote buying exercise.

[Goldwater]

That'll happen too - however you get into diminishing returns after a while. If the government raised income tax tomorrow, a huge amount of the increased revenue would be lost on VAT and other duties.


FF are trying to ignore it and hope the problem magically disappears but huge savings will need to be found in day to day spending.

Essentially Bertie wasted what was a once off windfall tax (from construction boom) by throwing it at spending which still exists after the windfall revenues have dried up.

It was a huge opportunity to build and improve schools, hospitals, broadband infrastructure and other items which would have improved quality of life for this and future generations but instead FF threw it at the benchmarking process and got very little in return.

Basically, FF wasted what could have been a fine legacy in a grubby vote buying exercise.

Exactly correct. Bertie Ahern is an enemy of the state. He will in time be seen as the worst Taoiseach ever.

However, in his defence, every self-interest group and public sector trade union leech was demanding their cut of the pie when times were good. Nobody wanted to look at the long term picture, and everyone wanted their pockets lined.

This country gets the politicians it deserves. Paddy is a greedy, shortsighted whore

[bobbysands81]

As a public sector employee I have absolutely no problem in taking a 10% pay cut as long as everyone else in the private sector takes the same cut (no exceptions) and there's a corresponding 10% cut in the cost of living.

Private Sector greed got us here but their shifting the blame onto the public sector.

[adamirer]

It is illegal to force someone to take a pay cut. End of.

[meriwether2]

But what exactly is preventing the use of income tax to raise revenue from all workers, regardless of who their employer is?

Why, for example, should the staff of the banks who are now in receipt of billions of our taxes/ pension fund money etc not take a commensurate pay cut or income tax hike?

Because Income tax hikes will affect consumer spending. We need to stimulate the economy, not retard it further.

As for the banks, firstly, I want to clarify that I would like to see most of the management fired (if they can be replaced).
As for paycuts to ban staff, thats not the worst idea.
I would assume we will see redundancies along the line there anyway, which iss ame principle.

[meriwether2]

As a public sector employee I have absolutely no problem in taking a 10% pay cut as long as everyone else in the private sector takes the same cut (no exceptions) and there's a corresponding 10% cut in the cost of living.

Private Sector greed got us here but their shifting the blame onto the public sector.

The private sector got you your benchmarked pay increases as well.
We couldn't keep you going forever.

As for your 10% paycut for the private sector across the board..........would you be satisfied with a 100% paycut taken by 100k odd people since the recession began?

[The OD]

As a public Servant I would presently strike for a long period (which of course means no pay) if public sector wage cuts are introduced without some give on a number of issues.

1)The crusifying cost of child care-I have never received an adequete explanation as to why they are so outrageously high in the Greater dublin area compared to the rest of Ireland. Rates need to be regulated or at least a coherent strategy for bringing them down.

2) Property Tax-why is it that if you want to buy a second hand house for 300k-you pay 20K to the Tax man but if you sell your house and make a profit on your home you pay nothing? Stamp duty could easily be lowered in present climate

3)Tax Evasion needs to be dealt with. I have already started a thread on this.

4) Bail out of Anglo-Irish needs to be stopped. Its a complete waste of money

There seems to be an assumption that all Public servants are married to other public servants. Im Not and my families income is already down 40% due to job loss. Not everyone is losing their job in the private sector and Im not sure If most private sector workers are taking cuts.

Let the abuse begin..because I gave up months ago expecting thoughtful responses on this site.

Congratulations on a very well put post. Its all well and good to give out yards about the civil service (and I do) but you makes some good points above and whilst I am not 100% with you, I am close on these issues.

Whilst I feel the civil service is top heavy and bloated, I dont think attacking the ordinary worker is the way to go.

However, I want to read this thread properly before replying further, so will get back with some deeper opinions after my sambo.....(egg mayo on brown wholegrain with a banana and tracker bar.....times is tight you know!)

[meriwether2]

To be honest - huge savings to be made in public sector but a pay cut is wrong way to go about it - it penalises the good as well as the mallingerers and time servers.

Get rid of the deadwood and introduce more costly and efficient work practices.
Introduce decentralisation on a "take it or leave it basis". Give a fair relocation package but no more. May be a bonus anyway in terms of childcare and property costs mentioned above.

Allow three days paid sick leave per annum and no more which is the norm in the private sector and in most other countries. This would drastically cut down the cases of Mondaymorningitis so prevalent among teachers for instance.

I agree. I think a paycut penalises good and valuable public sector workers.

There are people who should not be employed in the public sector. They are surplus to requirements. Thats where the cuts should lie.

[JCSkinner]

As a public Servant I would presently strike for a long period (which of course means no pay) if public sector wage cuts are introduced without some give on a number of issues.

Your type shouldn't be given the option of a wage cut. You should simply be sacked.

[markeys]

As a public Servant I would presently strike for a long period (which of course means no pay) if public sector wage cuts are introduced without some give on a number of issues.

1)The crusifying cost of child care-I have never received an adequete explanation as to why they are so outrageously high in the Greater dublin area compared to the rest of Ireland. Rates need to be regulated or at least a coherent strategy for bringing them down.

2) Property Tax-why is it that if you want to buy a second hand house for 300k-you pay 20K to the Tax man but if you sell your house and make a profit on your home you pay nothing? Stamp duty could easily be lowered in present climate

3)Tax Evasion needs to be dealt with. I have already started a thread on this.

4) Bail out of Anglo-Irish needs to be stopped. Its a complete waste of money

There seems to be an assumption that all Public servants are married to other public servants. Im Not and my families income is already down 40% due to job loss. Not everyone is losing their job in the private sector and Im not sure If most private sector workers are taking cuts.

Let the abuse begin..because I gave up months ago expecting thoughtful responses on this site.

Why is it that you'll only take a paycut if your demands are met? None of my demands were met. Ditto with hundreds of thousands of private workers. Lots of them lost their job, lots of them took pay cuts. Lots more hanging on by a thread and working 3 day weeks, taking early holidays etc, all in an effort to keep their employment. . Why are you more special than the rest of us to 'demand' certain things be done before you face reality that the public sector pay bill is too high? Either benchmarking is okay (and it should work both ways, i.e. time for a pay cut for you nice folks) or benchmarking is the unions way of sinking the county. Make up your minds. But lose the 'demands' mentality. The private workers will devour you if you go on strike over a miserable 10% when most would be delighted to take a 10% cut in return for job securtiy. Get over your privileged headbanging. Lords you most certainly are not.

1. How about you start a creche? Or is that too creative and risky for a public service workers?

2. No opinion. Probably come out on the side of agreeing with you.

3. But of course. Taxing the benifit in kind of a public pension and a job for life would be a great place to start.

4. Completely agree. Its scandalous.