Give and Take For Public sector Pay cuts!

[Dreaded_Estate]

It's a nonsense. Are you suggesting that every employee be subject to this formula or just public workers?

I'm suggesting security of tenure can be valued as

Probability of a person without security of tenure losing their job X Person's Salary.

I'm not suggesting any should be subject to this formula, but I am suggesting that the benefit can be valued contrary to what some believe.

[riker1969]

I think monitoring of workers so closely is called MANAGERIALISM. Its essentially a throw back to the assembly line when workers were simply treated as units of production. To quote one overview of its introduction into British Education:

‘There is no place for reflectivity, just ‘pragmatism’ and the enforcement of whatever technical fix will turn the government’s latest mission into reality.’

All that being said-its not a bad idea to give extra money for extra work like extra curricular but review this money every year. So long as you are coming from the view of encouraging people and not from the view of not trusting them. Essentially ,in Britain they have turned their teachers into assembly line workers who must do things a certain way and then spend the other half of their day explainng how they did it. Result: Few value A Levels chronic problems recruiting Teachers.

Any chance those interested in discussing Irish Education would bugger off to the Education Forum?? Believe it or not-there are more than teachers in public service. My thread simply desires to discuss whether the Gov should outline a progressive platform to sweeten the pay cuts. Otherwise, Public servants like me who feel screwed by poor planning lack of a coherent Childcare policy, allowing tax evaders to roam free and unimpeded ,bailing out a developers bank-will strike . That will affect the broader public. KEEP ON TOPIC !

[hopi watcher]

... but I am suggesting that the benefit can be valued contrary to what some believe.

But for what purpose?

[Leftfemme22]

Thats complete horsh********************.

If I put 10k on the flip of a coin (at evens), I can quantify the risk as an evens chance of losing all 10k.
That risk is not mitigated because I can quantify it.

You haven't quantified the risk, you have just established that a risk exists and has an associated probability in terms of outcome. (You have quantified the odds in the simplest terms, not the risk) With your example this can be illustrated by tossing the coin ten times, the odds are 1 in 2, that doesn't mean the coin will land on one side 5 times and then the other 5 times, it could land on one side 8 times or even one side ten times in a row. The risk has not been quantified as the outcome is still totally random.


The idea of risk quantification especially in terms of assigning a value for monetary/pay purposes hinges entirely on that value being a constant, that is impossible. The closest we can come to it is chaos theory which is incredibly complex and still just a theory.

To quantify a risk in this regard would be to say with absolute certainty that you can predict the outcome. To claim this invalidates the premise that a risk exists in the first place.

[JCSkinner]

You have no idea about maths, do you, Leftfemme?
Tell you what, riddle me this: how do you explain the existence of risk assessors and actuaries if it is impossible to do the job they are contracted and paid very well by insurance firms to do?

[bobbysands81]

But I bet they would be willing to lend you much more because of it. It might be hard to value but that doesn't mean it is impossible to value.

Amazingly I got mortgage approval last Feb, when I went to draw it down 3/4 months ago the bank told me they were no longer willing to give me any money. No reasons offered, no explanations given.

[patslatt]

You can sell your principle residence for 2 million and pay not a cent

Time for CGT tax to be raised to 35% including on the principal residence

Allow roll over relief if you are moving house.

One way of taxing the huge wealth accumulated in the property sector over the last decade.

Treat residential rented property as commercial property for rates with relief for borrowed money by levying the tax on the equity as opposed to the value.

Inheritance gift and Cat taxes also need to be increased.

The €250 charge on rental properties is just the thin end of a very long wedge that will see those charges rise to thousands in maybe 10 years,ostensibly to fund councils.Eventually when vacancy rates rise,the charge will be added fully to rents. With about 40% of rentals being social welfare tenants and a large percentage of the rest being low income tenants,the tax is very regressive.

[bobbysands81]

Boo feckin hoo..10%??? I'm currently on 50% of what i was on 2 years ago and I still have to pay the 1% levy etc...and I had the misfortune to deal with the public sector of FAS and the dole office for months before I was lucky enough to get a job, any job. Some of the things I experienced dealing with both made me sick..
I have no sympathy for any public servant and I really believe the cuts should be wide and severe. I know a few public servants and they have it far too easy imo

Boo feckin hoo back pal. Go join the Civil/Public Service if you think it's all that. Because a begrudger like you is miserable we all should be miserable???

[bobbysands81]

30% pay cuts across the board for the vastly overpaid public sector workers, including TDs ministers etc. No arguments from those trying to preserve the status quo, we will all suffer, the deflation in costs will help though so everything from childcare to houses to cars to food will be cheaper in years to come.
A brave TD or political party could bring a bill to the house proposing a 30% cut for all public sector people in the national interest , lets see who votes for it, but then again turkeys dont vote for xmas.

That would be illegal.

[JCSkinner]

Amazingly I got mortgage approval last Feb, when I went to draw it down 3/4 months ago the bank told me they were no longer willing to give me any money. No reasons offered, no explanations given.

They could no longer borrow it to lend it to you. Do you read the papers at all? We've been in a global credit crunch for a while now.