Give and Take For Public sector Pay cuts!

[Dreaded_Estate]

Thank christ you are not a teacher.

What's wrong with the method

[hopi watcher]

Let's just incorporate our previous discussion on this by reference eh? Base pay on a scale, increments by a set of measures, including time served, but not ONLY time served.

Simple when measuring repetitive work. This work by it's nature will never lend itself to accurate measurement that would allow for a fair system of such payments. If you are talking about a bonus structure over and above basic only, that would need to be agreed and that is highly unlikely as any such scheme will have much guestimating involved which will result in unfairness across the board. And I don't need to tell you where that will lead to.

[hopi watcher]

What's wrong with the method

It's a nonsense. Are you suggesting that every employee be subject to this formula or just public workers?

[Oppenheimer]

Simple when measuring repetitive work. This work by it's nature will never lend itself to accurate measurement that would allow for a fair system of such payments. If you are talking about a bonus structure over and above basic only, that would need to be agreed and that is highly unlikely as any such scheme will have much guestimasting involved which will result in unfairness across the board. And I don't need to tell you where that will lead to.

You always go there don't you, assuming that a tape measure is needed for all things.....how about, per term, some suggestions:

1) Punctuality (measure of effectiveness in job execution)
2) Number of extra-curricular activities (measure of commitment to the school)
3) Number of positive parent reports (measure of public satisfaction)
4) Number of negative parent reports (measure of public dissatisfaction)
5) Number of script corrections not questioned (measure of quality and attention to detail)
6).......

This is a simple list that could be a lot more creative, with teacher input and their opinion on what differentiates a good teacher from a bad one. It would require no more than a few days to create and agree and a few hours per term to monitor once in place.

No, not all jobs are repetitive but ALL jobs are measurable.

[irish_bob]

can someone explain why is the dole in the south at 198 euro and due to go up to 212 euro (per week) this month, compared to 62 pound a week in the north???

yes i know different economies and all, but should the south that start cutting benifits and bring them more in line with the rest of europe? there is definately savings that can be made here.

the benifits in the south for child care, dole, etc are brilliant compared to the north.

the old age pension is also far higher than in the north

[politicaldonations]

30% pay cuts across the board for the vastly overpaid public sector workers, including TDs ministers etc. No arguments from those trying to preserve the status quo, we will all suffer, the deflation in costs will help though so everything from childcare to houses to cars to food will be cheaper in years to come.
A brave TD or political party could bring a bill to the house proposing a 30% cut for all public sector people in the national interest , lets see who votes for it, but then again turkeys dont vote for xmas.

[hopi watcher]

You always go there don't you, assuming that a tape measure is needed for all things.....how about, per term, some suggestions:

1) Punctuality (measure of effectiveness in job execution)
2) Number of extra-curricular activities (measure of commitment to the school)
3) Number of positive parent reports (measure of public satisfaction)
4) Number of negative parent reports (measure of public dissatisfaction)
5) Number of script corrections not questioned (measure of quality and attention to detail)
6).......

This is a simple list that could be a lot more creative, with teacher input and their opinion on what differentiates a good teacher from a bad one. It would require no more than a few days to create and agree and a few hours per term to monitor once in place.

No, not all jobs are repetitive but ALL jobs are measurable.

The amount of administration needed for this would cost more than any likely savings. And a small example, it is rediculous to suggest that a teacher should receive payments based on such hairy-fairy things as 'positive parent reports' Parents are individuals each with a different opinion as to what would constitute a positve report. Regarding 'exrta-curricular activies' I can just see the more inventive licking their lips at the prospect of being paid for such things. Will an inspector need to be present when these 'activities' are being undertaken or will the treacher in question just fill out a report?

[Oppenheimer]

The amount of administration needed for this would cost more than any likely savings. And a small example, it is rediculous to suggest that a teacher should receive payments based on such hairy-fairy things as 'positive parent reports' Parents are individuals each woith a different opinion s to what would constitute a positve report. Regarding 'exrta-curricular activies' I can just see the more inventive licking their lips at the prospect of being paid for such things. Will an inspector need to be present when these 'activities' are being undertaken or will the treacher in question just fill out a report?

It is how much of the private sector works, by agreeing a list of measures that allow for a holistic view of the position and how one worker can be compared against another in a reasonable and fair way. You obviously missed my earlier post - base pay on a scale but for anyone that wants to progress then they should be measured. The examples I gave were derived in short order, as I qualified, and at least it is a productive argument, producing something rather than nay saying everything. And as I also said, no it would not cost that much to implement, just a little bit of concern that a good system is needed.

The problem with the current, Union controlled system, as with all Union involved systems - you only get what is "just good enough" and not "what will make us and our product/service the best". The sooner society evolves to get that and run the Unions out of Dodge, the better.

[irish_bob]

30% pay cuts across the board for the vastly overpaid public sector workers, including TDs ministers etc. No arguments from those trying to preserve the status quo, we will all suffer, the deflation in costs will help though so everything from childcare to houses to cars to food will be cheaper in years to come.
A brave TD or political party could bring a bill to the house proposing a 30% cut for all public sector people in the national interest , lets see who votes for it, but then again turkeys dont vote for xmas.

wont happen , while most people including myself in the private sector would on paper , welcome such a move , being a small country like this , nearly every builder , retailer , farmer , garrage owner etc has a son , daughter or relative who works in the public sector so cuts in the public sector will be personal to almost everyone , we are not a nation who as individuals looks to the national interest , most of us cant see past the end of our nose

[hopi watcher]

It is how much of the private sector works, by agreeing a list of measures that allow for a holistic view of the position and how one worker can be compared against another in a reasonable and fair way. You obviously missed my earlier post - base pay on a scale but for anyone that wants to progress then they should be measured. The examples I gave were derived in short order, as I qualified, and at least it is a productive argument, producing something rather than nay saying everything. And as I also said, no it would not cost that much to implement, just a little bit of concern that a good system is needed.

The problem with the current, Union controlled system, as with all Union involved systems - you only get what is "just good enough" and not "what will make us and our product/service the best". The sooner society evolves to get that and run the Unions out of Dodge, the better.

Sorry to tell you that the systems you propose usually end up with individual workers being abused and underpaid. Any measurement being used to determine pay must be open to easy and immediate verification ands not a situation where a manager hands out money to favoured employees. What you are propoing essentially is down to the whim of the employer and is open to wholesale abuse. That is why no union would have anything to do with such a scheme.