All wages will have to be cut-private sector-15%,public sector-25%,govt ministers-35%

[Oppenheimer]

The call for pay cuts to ameliorate the fluctuations in foreign currencies is a nonsense. What if the FX rate changed back within a few months - pay rises!?

While I support reducing costs and making things more efficient, the best we can hope for are pay freezes in the public sector and pay decreases\freezes in the private sector. However, the cuts in the public sector should come in the form of redundancies, which will likely follow the contraction in the private sector as certain public services should expand and contract according to their need to service specific private sector elements. The private sector will respond to the market, frontline businesses like retail, consumer services etc. will be the first to go, followed by a migration of this up the value chain from which these businesses are supplied. This is already well underway with people seeking the best value for money and cutting back on non-essentials.

This recession also contains the energy required for the Govt. to slim down Quangos and other services it sees as non-essential and reforming the public service en masse. If a recovery sets in then there will be no will to change and the opportunity will be lost.

Also, the unfortunate truth about big business, and big government departments is that the principle costs are in the masses of middle and lower paid where there are simply more "units of cost". While senior and executive managers and civil servants earn major money, there are relatively few of them so cutting their salaries will have less of an effect. That is not to say that I support the status quo with respect to their money, I believe, if they want their jobs in the long term they should give up as much as 50% of their salary in the short term. As a bonus for managing through difficult times and creating real efficiencies I would also promote that managers should be given either stock options in private\publicly listed companies and perhaps extra pension credits for senior civil servants in lieu of their foregone salary - once there is MEASURABLE change with respect to their performance.

[hiding behind a poster]

How can anyone be so ignorant to say all private sector wages should be cut by 15%? What if their boss or company is making mega profits, should their wages still be cut then? All cutting wages will do is boost profits for the gombeen men while give more hardship to the rest of us.

But that seems to be the only example you're capable of quoting. How about if, instead of making mega-profits, the company is losing money hand over fist, and in danger of going to the wall?

[Oppenheimer]

I haven't seen the Big Mac Index in a while, but it always indicated that Ireland was one of the cheapest countries to live in vis a vis PPP.

They use a weighted average of the currencies in the Euro area so it can not be used to compare us specifically..and we all know that one should never use an average value without some description of the spread! This is up to July '08...
Big Macs reveal Europe's strong currencies | Sandwiched | The Economist

[H.R. Haldeman]

While I support reducing costs and making things more efficient, the best we can hope for are pay freezes in the public sector and pay decreases\freezes in the private sector.

Why do you say that Oppenheimer?

Because the way I look at it, the PS unions are in absolutely no position to say no to pay cuts. They have no choice - there's no money to pay for the salaries, we're totally bloody broke, so....what other option is there? They really have no argument to counteract this basic fact. On top of that, there is no national mood whatsoever for threats of strikes or whatnot, so sympathy from the public would be virtually zero.

No solid argument otherwise, no moral blackmail or implied threats available, no public sympathy. I think they're just going to have to suck it up.

[James Connolly]

Why do you say that Oppenheimer?

Because the way I look at it, the PS unions are in absolutely no position to say no to pay cuts. They have no choice - there's no money to pay for the salaries, we're totally bloody broke, so....what other option is there? They really have no argument to counteract this basic fact. On top of that, there is no national mood whatsoever for threats of strikes or whatnot, so sympathy from the public would be virtually zero.

No solid argument otherwise, no moral blackmail or implied threats available, no public sympathy. I think they're just going to have to suck it up.

With proper leadership, an alliance of unions such as nurses, teachers, police, municipal workers etc. could bring any government down.

Especially the corrupt and incompetent Fianna Green government who got us into this mess.

[Oppenheimer]

Why do you say that Oppenheimer?

Because the way I look at it, the PS unions are in absolutely no position to say no to pay cuts. They have no choice - there's no money to pay for the salaries, we're totally bloody broke, so....what other option is there? They really have no argument to counteract this basic fact. On top of that, there is no national mood whatsoever for threats of strikes or whatnot, so sympathy from the public would be virtually zero.

No solid argument otherwise, no moral blackmail or implied threats available, no public sympathy. I think they're just going to have to suck it up.

I say that because there will be much to do before you get to that point, i.e., release all contract work, make redundant all roles that are deemed unnecessary then see how the land lies at that point. I am not sure of what (if any) planning has been done to assess the reduction in costs in the first round of cutbacks but I would expect that unless this has been done, no decision will be made to cut back on pay for those who are unaffected by any redundancies. I agree with the analysis that the unions cannot push and there is no sympathy in the public BUT you still have to have people do their jobs in organisations that are going to see numbers of their colleagues leave so any strategist on HR will tell you to do the primary things first, i.e., make redundancies and other cuts before you undermine those you want to ultimately work harder (less available resources etc..).

Saying we have no money is also correct but the wheels have to be kept in some sort of motion so I'd much rather see a strategy of "Reduce and Streamline" that makes the public service leaner but does not disenfranchise those who we need (and remember by cutting back you are making a statement to those that stay that they are needed) to keep things going. Note also I am not advocating any quangos too....it is time to turn off all but the basics.

[Big Bobo]

But that seems to be the only example you're capable of quoting. How about if, instead of making mega-profits, the company is losing money hand over fist, and in danger of going to the wall?

Let them prove it then. Open their accounts to the workers and show them the exact financial situation they are in. negociations can take place from there.

[NapperTandy]

It seems Government ministers are only going to cut their pay by 20!! Such a cop-out. They should cut their wages by 35%, as I suggested in January. Cowen is nothing but a coward!

[SamVimesBoots]

There's a large difference in the cost of living on either side of the border. This is reflected in wages. The standard of living of neither group vastly exceeds that of the other. Wages are relative to spending.

I'd say since I moved from Galway to Derry, my wages are probably just over half what they would be in the south now with the current exchange rate - but my quality of life is vastly improved. Galway was a constant struggle and financial juggling act because of the insanely high cost of everything. In just 20 months in Derry by contrast I've cleared over €10K worth of debt, built up a nice emergency fund of savings, and can spend freely on myself without a care in the world while still adding to savings every month.

There's just no comparison. For some daft reason everyone in the south seems to have this bizarre and backwards relationship with money. High prices are good, and the more you pay for something the better person you are. WTF?! If a business finds trade slack and customers just aren't coming through the door, the immediate and instinctive reaction in the south is to....jack the prices up higher. WTF?! Debt is wealth, high costs are a mark of wealth, expensive is good, starving yourself to have the biggest mortgage on the street shows how smart you are, if there's a festival or other occassion this is a green light to rip everybody off including your regular customer base by jacking up prices....I dunno, I just don't get it.

There's something seriously defective in the southern understanding of money and commerce, and it might be useful to enquire why this is.

[NapperTandy]

I'd say since I moved from Galway to Derry, my wages are probably just over half what they would be in the south now with the current exchange rate - but my quality of life is vastly improved. Galway was a constant struggle and financial juggling act because of the insanely high cost of everything. In just 20 months in Derry by contrast I've cleared over €10K worth of debt, built up a nice emergency fund of savings, and can spend freely on myself without a care in the world while still adding to savings every month.

There's just no comparison. For some daft reason everyone in the south seems to have this bizarre and backwards relationship with money. High prices are good, and the more you pay for something the better person you are. WTF?! If a business finds trade slack and customers just aren't coming through the door, the immediate and instinctive reaction in the south is to....jack the prices up higher. WTF?! Debt is wealth, high costs are a mark of wealth, expensive is good, starving yourself to have the biggest mortgage on the street shows how smart you are, if there's a festival or other occassion this is a green light to rip everybody off including your regular customer base by jacking up prices....I dunno, I just don't get it.

There's something seriously defective in the southern understanding of money and commerce, and it might be useful to enquire why this is.

People in the South think they are better off with high wages, it's ludricous. We are losing so many jobs because wages and the cost of living is so high. British tourists can no longer afford to visit the South. How many tourist jobs are we losing as a result of this? We have to cut our cost base pretty rapidly. We should have a quick, sharp deflationary shock! The big problem with a quick deflationary shock is the high mortgage debt we have. Some people have huge mortgages which they will never be able to pay off.