The Finnish experience

[farnaby]

A Sunday Tribune article has highlighted the similarities between what is happening to our economy and what happened in Finland in the early 90s. And that's not a good thing.

Finns could help to stop Ireland from going under

both countries had a massive housing boom and a huge surge in economic growth that catapulted Finnish living standards to among the highest in Europe.

Finns' living standards, which had grown to €18,000 per head of population in 1990, collapsed to €16,470 by 1992, taking years to get back to 1990 levels. As the economy contracted and unemployment costs soared, government debt ballooned from a meagre 14% of GDP in 1990 to almost 58% in only four years.

The road to recovery was painful. International economists say that, unprecedented in many western Euro­pean countries, nurses were sacked and major hospitals were shut, because the Finnish government had run out of money.


Retraining employees who had lost jobs in the pulp and paper mills, a major industry, was near impossible. Like Ireland, it went into the slump with a small debt level that soon ballooned.

We don't have the utter collapse of our major trading partners' economies to deal with but not far off given the global recession.

Finland has an enviable economy now. Two things helped Finland out of the rut - devaluation and the stratospheric rise of Nokia (alone responsible for 1% of GDP growth in 1998). Devaluation isn't open to us. What odds on Ireland producing a Nokia in the next few years - a global brand, a significant employer at home (many high-value jobs, not McRyanair roles), an export-driven manufacturer, and a catalyst for home-grown innovation in other companies? Nokia came from producing wellies through basic electronic items into mobile technology - any Irish companies around showing that willingness to diversify in troubled times?

See also Finland Overview of economy, Information about Overview of economy in Finland

[Pauli]

A Sunday Tribune article has highlighted the similarities between what is happening to our economy and what happened in Finland in the early 90s. And that's not a good thing.

Finns could help to stop Ireland from going under





We don't have the utter collapse of our major trading partners' economies to deal with but not far off given the global recession.

Finland has an enviable economy now. Two things helped Finland out of the rut - devaluation and the stratospheric rise of Nokia (alone responsible for 1% of GDP growth in 1998). Devaluation isn't open to us. What odds on Ireland producing a Nokia in the next few years - a global brand, a significant employer at home (many high-value jobs, not McRyanair roles), an export-driven manufacturer, and a catalyst for home-grown innovation in other companies? Nokia came from producing wellies through basic electronic items into mobile technology - any Irish companies around showing that willingness to diversify in troubled times?

See also Finland Overview of economy, Information about Overview of economy in Finland

Do we have a Nokia?? The short answer is a resounding "NO"! We failed to invest anything in domestic industry in the fat years, believing that FDI was our saviour. See how that worked out.

[JohnNash]

A Sunday Tribune article has highlighted the similarities between what is happening to our economy and what happened in Finland in the early 90s. And that's not a good thing.

Finns could help to stop Ireland from going under





We don't have the utter collapse of our major trading partners' economies to deal with but not far off given the global recession.

Finland has an enviable economy now. Two things helped Finland out of the rut - devaluation and the stratospheric rise of Nokia (alone responsible for 1% of GDP growth in 1998). Devaluation isn't open to us. What odds on Ireland producing a Nokia in the next few years - a global brand, a significant employer at home (many high-value jobs, not McRyanair roles), an export-driven manufacturer, and a catalyst for home-grown innovation in other companies? Nokia came from producing wellies through basic electronic items into mobile technology - any Irish companies around showing that willingness to diversify in troubled times?

See also Finland Overview of economy, Information about Overview of economy in Finland

Too late for us to look towards Finland

We will now revert to a Stone Age like existance.

I ranted on here about our stupid government trips to China, I ranted that we needed to invest in Irish Business's and was laughed off the stage by ZANU-FF supporters.

Well, now the chickens as they say....

opportunities pissed away

[Duth Ealla]

The finnish experience is a very good one to compare Ireland to.

Finland has very high literacy rates, Finland tops the OECD's mathematics tables for 15 year olds, Finland determines its speeding tickets on the basis of a person's incomes.

Nokia is only the tip of it. Finland has a strong sense of "we're in it together" and have built a society that actually deserves to be called a republic.

Unfortunately in Ireland we are lacking many things compared to Finland and Nokia is not one of them.

Oh and on the point that Nokia had contributed 1 % GDP growth well:

[FONT=Arial][COLOR=#ff0000]Dell’s importance to the Irish economy is evidenced by the company’s contribution of at least 5.5 per cent of Irish exports, 2 per cent of GDP and over 4 per cent of all expenditure in the Irish economy. In the financial year ended 30th January 2004, Dell paid €160m in salaries in Ireland. For the financial year ended 30th January 2005, Dell paid €55m in Corporation Tax.[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=#ff0000]The Fins would look to fix what was wrong. In ireland we'll look for scapegoats rather than apply the same measure to all.[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR][/FONT]

[farnaby]

Finland has very high literacy rates, Finland tops the OECD's mathematics tables for 15 year olds, Finland determines its speeding tickets on the basis of a person's incomes.

Nokia is only the tip of it. Finland has a strong sense of "we're in it together" and have built a society that actually deserves to be called a republic.

Unfortunately in Ireland we are lacking many things compared to Finland and Nokia is not one of them.

Having a Finnish other half, I know all about the areas in which Finland is miles ahead of us . On the other hand it has its problems (if you can bring yourself to watch a movie called "A Charming Mass Suicide" - a frickin' comedy! - it'll list them for you...).

You make a good point about the "we're in it together" mentality, though i'm not sure how much of that is doggedness to the point of fatalism! As an example, the Finns have not seen major emigration since the early 20th century. 1.3m Finns have emigrated in the past 150 years (and that was primarily in the early 20th century, to North America like the rest of Europe) - in 2004 approximately 1.2m Irish-born citizens lived abroad, never mind the past 150 years. Is emigration - which is making its comeback as we speak - a safety valve or a debilitating brain drain and should it be discouraged to help us get through the recession together?

[Pauli]

The finnish experience is a very good one to compare Ireland to.

Finland has very high literacy rates, Finland tops the OECD's mathematics tables for 15 year olds, Finland determines its speeding tickets on the basis of a person's incomes.

Nokia is only the tip of it. Finland has a strong sense of "we're in it together" and have built a society that actually deserves to be called a republic.

Unfortunately in Ireland we are lacking many things compared to Finland and Nokia is not one of them.

Oh and on the point that Nokia had contributed 1 % GDP growth well:

[FONT=Arial][COLOR=#ff0000]Dell’s importance to the Irish economy is evidenced by the company’s contribution of at least 5.5 per cent of Irish exports, 2 per cent of GDP and over 4 per cent of all expenditure in the Irish economy. In the financial year ended 30th January 2004, Dell paid €160m in salaries in Ireland. For the financial year ended 30th January 2005, Dell paid €55m in Corporation Tax.[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=#ff0000]The Fins would look to fix what was wrong. In ireland we'll look for scapegoats rather than apply the same measure to all.[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR][/FONT]

Great stuff by Dell. Pity it is not an Irish company and that its future role in the Irish economy will be decided in a room in Texas.

[Evestown2]

... Two things helped Finland out of the rut - devaluation and the stratospheric rise of Nokia (alone responsible for 1% of GDP growth in 1998). ...

We have better than Nokia: Pfizer and Viagra. That will be our saviour when times get hard!
Well, that and the EU reconstruction grants.

[Duth Ealla]

We have better than Nokia: Pfizer and Viagra. That will be our saviour when times get hard!
Well, that and the EU reconstruction grants.

nah wont say anything its too easy.

[ibis]

We have better than Nokia: Pfizer and Viagra. That will be our saviour when times get hard!
Well, that and the EU reconstruction grants.

nah wont say anything its too easy.

You were thinking of something along the lines of "when the going gets hard, the hard will get us going"?

[yehbut_nobut]

I remember when this was in the news a few weeks back - looks pretty cool. We need more of this sort of thing.

Mcor Technologies

(A 3D printer developed by an Irish company)