Reactionary public sector unions prevent efficient delivery of public services

[riker1969]

Many big developers are being kept afloat by the banks but that can't last. Many developers have lost everything.

Jaysus-billions left this state .Some Developers stayed too long on the Merry go round but you can bet, that while their companies are bust, their personal fortunes are safe.

[JollyRedGiant]

Many big developers are being kept afloat by the banks but that can't last. Many developers have lost everything.

Name them -

the vast majority of developers never put a penny of their own money into building projects. They borrowed from the banks and used the property they were going to build as collatoral. That's why the banks are in the sh*t because the only thing they can call in against the loans are the buildings that are lying empty that no one wants to buy.

I was reading recently of one developer who owns a bank €120million secured against property no one wants - yet he has €150million sitting in an account in the same bank and the bank can't touch it.

[Ed Dantes]

Let's look at FáS.
Chairman Peter McLoone , head of IMPACT, and brother of the Donegal County Manager.

Jack O'Connor, chair of SIPTU does not want to discuss corruption in that organisation. FáS has done a lot of good, cried the bearded b*ll*x

[patslatt]

Name them -

the vast majority of developers never put a penny of their own money into building projects. They borrowed from the banks and used the property they were going to build as collatoral. That's why the banks are in the sh*t because the only thing they can call in against the loans are the buildings that are lying empty that no one wants to buy.

I was reading recently of one developer who owns a bank €120million secured against property no one wants - yet he has €150million sitting in an account in the same bank and the bank can't touch it.

There is a variety of lending terms. The big banks say they mostly have sufficient collateral. In addition to collateral on the property that is subject of a loan,they get collateral on other property of borrowing developers, so the loan is cross-collateralised. The big banks also have exposure to loans collateralised on land alone,many billions worth,but presumably this is highly valuable land eg inner Dublin

One bank had a policy of mindlessly going for mortgage market share and was used by small developers as a lender of last resort when their loan applications were turned down by their usual banks. I found this out from a middle management employee and separately from a developer.

[hopi watcher]

The public sector expansion was funded by the taxes collected from capital gains and stamp duty in the unsustainable property boom. Many property investors and all their banks are carrying the can in the sense that they have suffered huge losses and many will go bankrupt.

Now the reality is that those taxes are no longer available to pay for the unsustainable public sector expansion. So will the government let the public sector ride on the back of a greatly weakened private sector that may be entering a near depression in the economy with unemployment headed into the teens? Or will it introduce redundancies of maybe 50,000 public sector workers?

Give a cost of 50,000 on the dole. And then give us some estimation of the damage that would be done to the fabric of our society. Or perhaps you have some other solution in mind

[irish_bob]

Give a cost of 50,000 on the dole. And then give us some estimation of the damage that would be done to the fabric of our society. Or perhaps you have some other solution in mind

too many cooks spoil the broth , by reducing numbers in the public sector ,two things happen , the state saves on wages ( dole is cheaper than a public servants salary ) and those public servants who stay on , work harder , their will be no loss to services or society

[bobbysands81]

It's not a question of deservng or undserving public servants. It looks like we just won't be able to afford them all.

Raise taxes on the super rich and we can afford them all - problem solved.

[Kevin Doyle]

too many cooks spoil the broth , by reducing numbers in the public sector ,two things happen , the state saves on wages ( dole is cheaper than a public servants salary )

Simplistic at best.

The resultant loss of spending power will have a huge knock on effect in the wider economy. Social welfare will take a hammering. It will be much more than just jobseekers allowance. It would be insane to remove the spending power of 50,000 state employees at a time when the retail and services sector are dying on their feet.

and those public servants who stay on , work harder , their will be no loss to services or society

Most publics servants work hard enough. If you strip out such a huge number from the Public service, the remainder will be overwhelmed and most services will grind to a halt. Essential services in particular will be hardest hit as it is these public servants who by and large work the hardest as it is.

[sparkey321]

Raise taxes on the super rich and we can afford them all - problem solved.

Do you really believe this crap....

The super rich are in the main no longer super rich. The vast majority of them have seen their values collapse as the property and stock market collapse. Even when they were "Super rich" their wealth was paper wealth based on value of assets which in many cases were companies. Do you honestly believe that there is anyone in Ireland with access to billions in cash ???

There is a 12 billion black hole in the economy. 12 billion...... (in round figures)

Total tax take from income tax...... 12 billion (again in round figures)

So you would need to double the top rate of tax and then double the lower rate of tax while praying that employment stays steady, wages remain steady and that removing another 12 billion from the economy will not finally wipe it out.

Taxation will not get us out of this mess.

and again for the hard of hearing

INCREASED TAXATION WILL NOT GET US OUT OF THIS MESS....

[hopi watcher]

too many cooks spoil the broth , by reducing numbers in the public sector ,two things happen , the state saves on wages ( dole is cheaper than a public servants salary ) and those public servants who stay on , work harder , their will be no loss to services or society

Now we can all see very clearly why we are in the mess we are. These guys actually think that slash and burn works.