Is it possible to legalise jingle mail in Ireland?

[feargach]

Let´s restrict this discussion to those who know the concept. It is, of course, justly a controversial matter.

And, of course, perhaps it is impossible to bring in a law which massively changes the terms of already-existing contracts.

But the scale of the housing disaster is such that, without bringing in a universal entitlement to jingle mail, as a regrettable measure, our ability to manage this issue is harmed.

A corallary discussion is: is it possible to radically alter the bankruptcy laws, to soften the pain for bankrupts? Or would creditors be able to succesfully appeal the decision to Europe?

[wysiwyg]

It is possible to legalise anything.. whether it is wise is another matter..

If you went down the American route regarding mortgages in Ireland.. I'd safely say 50-70% of mortgages would be defaulted on within 6 months

A more sinister development I heard from a friend working in a large Irish bank, is that they have never, in all the years of the boom, had so many applications for credit cards.. it seems many are heading down the plastic route to try to tide over repayments ... effectively putting themselves on 15-19% mortgages

Oh... and in other news.. the rise of the "Tallymen" - i.e. loan sharks operating in housing estates is back to where it was in the 80's... more signs of serious recession hitting

[drbob1972]

surely jingle mail (which as no legal standing anywhere afaik) is just another way to start the repossession process, only perhaps its the owner than the mortgage company whom initiate it

[wysiwyg]

surely jingle mail (which as no legal standing anywhere afaik) is just another way to start the repossession process, only perhaps its the owner than the mortgage company whom initiate it

Yes, but due to the difference in bankruptcy laws, it's easier in the US than Ireland

[drbob1972]

If you went down the American route regarding mortgages in Ireland.. I'd safely say 50-70% of mortgages would be defaulted on within 6 months

are you seriously suggesting that either now or within 6 months 50 - 70% of mortgage holders are /will be in serious arrears ?

KCB (IIB) stated today that their arrears / bad /default risk loans are at 2.5% (up 0.5%)

[feargach]

I´m not so sure. If we legalised JM, then every banker in Europe would see the market value of the Irish securitized mortgages plummet. Presumably they would want to sue Ireland for breach of contract.

This is a rather involved question, regarding how much wriggle room nations have under the various European Treaties.

[ivnryn]

Yes, but due to the difference in bankruptcy laws, it's easier in the US than Ireland

I think in some US States, a mortgage is backed entirely by the house itself. If you give back the house, you have met the terms of your contract.

However, in Ireland (and lots of other places), the person who takes out the mortgage is liable if the bank can't recover its money by selling the house.

[constitutionus]

also bankruptcy in americas isnt seen as such a bad thing as it is here. theres alot of american businessmen who went bankrupt at one time or another only to become a sucess with a new company down the road.

here your banned from starting a new company for seven years IIRC.

[ZANU-FF]

are you for real?

if ppl were stupid enough to have gotten caught in the hype and slept for a week in a queue so as to buy the 'last house' then it comes as no surprise to me that these might now be the same ppl unable to meet their contractual obligations.

ACCOUNTABILITY it is a measure of an Individuals maturity, if an Individual wants to throw in the towel and quit well that must stay on the public record for its the sub prime quitters and fools that spent beyond their means that also played a hand in pumping the market.

No PITY for Quitters and Fools

[feargach]

I've seen the JM concept brought up recently. Time to look into it?

We still have no informed advice as to whether we CAN retroactively impose JM in Ireland without getting sued by the EU or other nations.