Is it time to quit the Job?

[SJL4277]

Please, don't give me that crap, they painted doomsday scenarios about the MW before it came in, none of it came through.

Students live by barely eating and by scabbing off their parents, that amounts not a true reflection on what you can live on.

In France you get 65% of your previous income as dole.
In Germany it's higher.

Try cutting Social Welfare in the middle of the worst economic crises since the great depression, when the number of genuine people on the dole out numbers the wasters by 10 to 1, anyone who tried that would be out of office before the bill to do so was passed.



They do exist, I know two of them myself, one went on a nice long FAS scheme and when it was over and he got his qualification he went straight back on the dole, as did his two friends from the same course.
I have a relative who has been on it for over a decade, by this point he is totally unemployable he's been out of work so long.
They're not a huge number, and we can debate the sociology of why these people do what they do...but they do exist.

Countries with high MW's tend to have higher unemployment. I dunno how you can dismiss that as 'crap'- though i dont have any proof of this, it stands to reason that with a higher minimum wage certain struggling businesses couldn't function, and other more profitable ones would be less able to expand their operations ( the point where MC=MR would be lower, so the business would operate on a smaller scale)

The MW came in at a time when the economy was growing rapidly.

I'll +1 your second paragraph though, I know a few of them myself, and they've lived comfortably on it.

[PhoenixIreland]

There actually was a neo-liberal logic behind the minimum wage. It gave employers a frame work for how to pay staff which made it more difficult for low skilled and young workers to grumble about low pay especially on relitivity grounds. For many the minimum wage has become the maximum wage (which was entirely the purpose of bringing it in)

I'm no fan of the ...er...well...capitalists if thats what you wanna call them, but I think thats a stretch.

[SJL4277]

The statement is so flawed for many reasons including relativity but it's also completely irrelevant. I was speaking about how capitalism works, not comparing with another system.

You were speaking about how capitalism works through the paradigm of Marx. Which makes your comment an implicit comparison

[PhoenixIreland]

Countries with high MW's tend to have higher unemployment. I dunno how you can dismiss that as 'crap'- though i dont have any proof of this, it stands to reason that with a higher minimum wage certain struggling businesses couldn't function, and other more profitable ones would be less able to expand their operations ( the point where MC=MR would be lower, so the business would operate on a smaller scale)

The MW came in at a time when the economy was growing rapidly.

I'll +1 your second paragraph though, I know a few of them myself, and they've lived comfortably on it.

Yes they do have that tendency, but correlation does not = causation
Basic rule of research


If you mean it would hit smaller businesses hard, yes it does, which is why I'm always for cutting taxes on smaller businesses

[Big Bobo]

I'm no fan of the ...er...well...capitalists if thats what you wanna call them, but I think thats a stretch.

Why do people on here seem so reluctant to acknowledge capitalism? It's the economic system we live in. It's a system I disagree with but that does not mean I think it does not function well in certain circumstances even if it's contradictions will always catch up with it.

You would be correct in that there is other capitalist benifits of a minimum wage. It is important that workers are paid enough to buy back a certain % of the wealth they create so the merry-go-round can keep going. It is then hoped capitalists and the rich will purchase the remaining wealth. However it is not as simple as that. Capitalism must also extend huge amounts of credit to people in the form of paper (or nowadays vitual balances in banks) if an economy is to grow. The problem is paying it back and the reduced purchasing power it entails which leads to negative growth. However an economy in one country can grow almost indefinitly if there is imperialism involved (the transfer of wealth from abroad to the domestic economy)

[PhoenixIreland]

Why do people on here seem so reluctant to acknowledge capitalism? It's the economic system we live in. It's a system I disagree with but that does not mean I think it does not function well in certain circumstances even if it's contradictions will always catch up with it.

You would be correct in that there is other capitalist benifits of a minimum wage. It is important that workers are paid enough to buy back a certain % of the wealth they create so the merry-go-round can keep going. It is then hoped capitalists and the wealthy will purchase the remaining wealth. However it is not as simple as that. Capitalism must also extend huge amounts of credit to people in the form of paper (or nowadays vitual balances in banks) if an economy is to grow. The problem is paying it back and the reduced purchasing power it entail which leads to negative growth. However an economy in one country can grow almost indefinitly if there is imperialism involved (the transfer of wealth from abroad to the domestic economy)

It's not the diagnosis I have a problem associating myself with bobo, it's the people who have so far tried for a cure....and ended up making capitalism stronger by their own ineptitude, corruption, dictatorship and failure making it look good by comparason.