The pensioner with a Bank Deposit doesn't have a problem with the proposition I'm putting forward. Their money will be transferred at par to a new Deposit Account in a new Mutual Bank.Originally Posted by Squire Allworthy
With the system Paulson & Co are proposing, the pensioner loses their deposit to pay off the Bankers, and the taxpayer (you and me) pick up the tab.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain
“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
The current breakdown in the Financial System has "pulled the plug on the economy".
The question we need to ask ourselves is what are we going to do going forward?
The economy is f**ked. If you think it is bad now, wait til you see it in 12 months. There are Trillions of Dollars of bad debts (bad bets?) that Paulson & Co want to see turned into cash. They will turn it into cash by having the taxpayer pay hard cash for worthless pieces of paper.
The Bankers get the hard cash: The taxpayer gets the worthless paper.
I see something wrong with that scenario!
As for the barrel of oil suggestion.
We don't have any barrels of oil. Why would we base a currency on a commodity we have to buy with someone else's currency (that's part of what got us into this mess in the first place).
We also have the situation that there are less barrels of oil coming out of the ground now.
Until 2005 Global Oil Production rose every year. In 2005 we hit a peak. Since 2005 we have bounced along a plateau. In 2009 we will begin to see the decline.
There will be less oil every year than there was the year before from then on.
We need to move away from oil: Ireland is more than 90% dependent on imported fossil fuel for its energy needs. The European average is 50%. If we don't start working on getting that percentage down rapidly, we are going to suffer a very serious competitive disadvantage going forward - and that is without factoring in the loss of supplies of Natural Gas by 2010 (at the latest - it could happen this Winter).
So, to go back on topic:
Do we want to hand over all our future earnings to the Bankers in return for toilet paper?
or
Do we want to start again and build a better system?
(and if you think the "better system" I am proposing won't work, fell free to suggest other alternatives - my objective in this thread is to explore ways of getting us out of the hole we are in because handing over our hard earned, and our children's hard earned, to Hank Paulsen, Dick Cheney, et al, is not my idea of a solution)
Last edited by SPN; 11th October 2008 at 10:55 AM.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain
“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
Hear hear,let's start anew.
To the orignal poster.
You did not just attempt to quote leviticus at us did you?
Go back and take a good read of that whole book.
By proposing a barrel of oil as a standard, I was using a gold standard hypothesis as a start point. I was suggesting that we employ an oil standard but use it as a measure of wealth(ie how much oil would it buy). My scheme is totally preposterous, but so is everything else on this thread. I thought that was understood, with my little Campodian analogy there at the end.
Liquidate labour, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate.
The only thing that is preposterous is the notion of Governments bailing out the Bankers with taxpayers' money.
The Bankers get the money, and the taxpayers' get to pay for it.
Great if you are Hank Paulsen and the other "Masters of the Universe" on Wall Street.
Not so great if you are a taxpayer.
Or do you think otherwise?
.
.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain
“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
It would solve the problem as all the debts would be cancelled, and people would start lending and investing again knowing that there are no more nasty surprises lurking beneath the canopy. But it would be extremely unjust to honest and prudent moneylenders (and depositors), when it has been the reckless ones who exacerbated this problem.
Last edited by Fr. Hank Tree; 11th October 2008 at 04:09 PM.
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We don't have an option.
For as long as we delude ourselves that we can get back to Business As Usual, the taxpayer will be saddled with paying off more and more of the debts owed to the people who caused this crisis.
In the end we are going to have to bite the bullet anyway. Why not do it now and get a headstart on everybody else - and protect Irish taxpayers in the process.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain
“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
But the money they lent was created from thin air. It never actually existed.
Protect the depositors: Protect the taxpayer: Screw the *s who got us into this mess.
Do you really think the taxpayer should pick up the tab for this?
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain
“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
Bankers dont ger thier money.
Every bank shareholder is going to lose money as a result of this, the state are not buyi ng existing shares off shareholders, they are buyuing newly issued shares, reduving the value of the existing shares, so bankers lose money at leats in the short to medium term.
Babnks dont have the money to repay all of their customers, if the american government didnt act there wouldnty be any money left for access in current accounts, those who have money on deposit would just have to join a queue of creditors, while those in debt to the bank wouuld be creditors and pursued immeditaley, sucking money out of the economy bankrupting people and creating fundamental problems in the economy.
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