Public sector pay freeze inevitable

[Harpo]

I don't think you understand the concept of wealth or wealth creation very well.

Please elaborate (assuming that random statement has something to do with the topic under discussion)

It's a perfectly valid statement. Please tell me the people you believe contribute to the economy? Is it anyone who works in the private sector and pays tax? Tell me how does a strip club owner contribute to the economy, he might pay a 6 figure sum in taxes every year but how exactly has he contributed? Has he created any new wealth? Is men spending money on strippers instead of say paying extra tax good for the economy?

I think you are a bit thick!

Not at all. I think you don't understand basic economic theory. Public sector employees create more wealth than they are paid. That is a fact.

[SPN]

I don't think you understand the concept of wealth or wealth creation very well.

Please elaborate (assuming that random statement has something to do with the topic under discussion)

It's a perfectly valid statement. Please tell me the people you believe contribute to the economy? Is it anyone who works in the private sector and pays tax? Tell me how does a strip club owner contribute to the economy, he might pay a 6 figure sum in taxes every year but how exactly has he contributed? Has he created any new wealth? Is men spending money on strippers instead of say paying extra tax good for the economy?

I think you are a bit thick!

Not at all. I think you don't understand basic economic theory. Public sector employees create more wealth than they are paid. That is a fact.

...... by going to strip clubs?

[constitutionus]

I don't think you understand the concept of waelth or wealth creation very well.

Please elaborate (assuming that randome statement has something to do with the topic under discussion)

It's a perfectly valid statement. Please tell me the people you believe contribute to the economy? Is it anyone who works in the private sector and pays tax? Tell me how does a strip club owner contribute to the economy, he might pay a 6 figure sum in taxes every year but how exactly has he contributed? Has he created any new wealth? Is men spending money on strippers instead of say paying extra tax good for the economy?

ill tackle this.

yes, yes he is.

a good example is temple bar. the srtip clubs there are frequented by tourists on stag nights. theyre coming to this country and injecting fresh money to the economy that WOULDNT exist otherwise as its generated in another country.

the tax man takes 21% off him in VAT on his "services" and the girsls pay tax and PRSI on their wages if theyre employees. tips the girls get go straight back into the economy too.

the money taken from this endevour then goes to pay school teachers, firemen, civil servants, poitiicians , town planners, nursees and doctors etc.

THATS how taxation works

its a SEEDY example but it IS a genuine revenue making business. PURE public service DONT make profit. FACT. theyre not MEANT to. thats why they have to be PUBLIC services in order to ensure theyre provide,. and paid a decent wage to attract workers

[Harpo]

[quote=SPN]

I don't think you understand the concept of wealth or wealth creation very well.

Please elaborate (assuming that random statement has something to do with the topic under discussion)

It's a perfectly valid statement. Please tell me the people you believe contribute to the economy? Is it anyone who works in the private sector and pays tax? Tell me how does a strip club owner contribute to the economy, he might pay a 6 figure sum in taxes every year but how exactly has he contributed? Has he created any new wealth? Is men spending money on strippers instead of say paying extra tax good for the economy?

I think you are a bit thick!

Not at all. I think you don't understand basic economic theory. Public sector employees create more wealth than they are paid. That is a fact.

...... by going to strip clubs?[/quote:38htlqeg]

No that is an example of how capital and labour is uselessly squandered in society. Pensions for people who have spent their careerers faciliting the creation of wealth are perfectly reasonable. Yet you want to demonise them while turning a blind eye to the real wastage in society.

[Harpo]

I don't think you understand the concept of waelth or wealth creation very well.

Please elaborate (assuming that randome statement has something to do with the topic under discussion)

It's a perfectly valid statement. Please tell me the people you believe contribute to the economy? Is it anyone who works in the private sector and pays tax? Tell me how does a strip club owner contribute to the economy, he might pay a 6 figure sum in taxes every year but how exactly has he contributed? Has he created any new wealth? Is men spending money on strippers instead of say paying extra tax good for the economy?

ill tackle this.

yes, yes he is.

a good example is temple bar. the srtip clubs there are frequented by tourists on stag nights. theyre coming to this country and injecting fresh money to the economy that WOULDNT exist otherwise as its generated in another country.

the tax man takes 21% off him in VAT on his "services" and the girsls pay tax and PRSI on their wages if theyre employees. tips the girls get go straight back into the economy too.

the money taken from this endevour then goes to pay school teachers, firemen, civil servants, poitiicians , town planners, nursees and doctors etc.

THATS how taxation works

its a SEEDY example but it IS a genuine revenue making business. PURE public service DONT make profit. FACT. theyre not MEANT to. thats why they have to be PUBLIC services in order to ensure theyre provide,. and paid a decent wage to attract workers

Ok genius, since you want to make this an international thing and not focus on Irish workers let's look at this from a global point of view. How is it good for the world economy? Where is the money coming from that they are spending? Has new wealth actually been created or is it just being recycled?

[constitutionus]

harpo, im sorry but i have to ask this.

what wealth has a fireman ever made?

the tourist trade is worth over 5 BILLION HERE.

thats more than the beef trade. the new wealth was created, NOT recycled based on industry in foreign countries which are growing in real terms like WE used to prior to 2000. are you REALLY trying to say ALL the visitors to this country are foreign civil servants ?

one of the biggest spenders in this country from abroad are the indians. they made most of their money from IT sevices and manufacturing. of the yanks that come over they mainly are involved in finances. the chineese pretty much speak for themselve. we'll be working for THEM soon.

NONE of em run their economies on a public sector first model. you couldnt PAY me to live in those countries as i like the mixed model we have. but the fact is those capatilist feckers make a hell of alot of moola.

[SPN]

Pensions for people who have spent their careerers faciliting the creation of wealth are perfectly reasonable.

I was wondering when you were going to get back on topic.

I have no problems with people buying pensions - how many times do I have to say that?

I have no problems with Public Servants buying pensions.

I do have a problem with money being diverted from the provision of critical services for the poor, the sick and the needy to fund the outrageous farce that is taxpayer funded defined benefit pensions.

Yet you want to demonise them while turning a blind eye to the real wastage in society.

I am neither demonising anyone, nor discussing wastage: The topic under discussion is whether Public Servants should get payrises, can we stick to it please?

[Clanrickard]

Not at all. I think you don't understand basic economic theory. Public sector employees create more wealth than they are paid. That is a fact.

Oh. My. God.

[constitutionus]

actually ive no problem with the PRIVATE sector paying for em.

like i said it'd be an incentive to get good people into the public sector.

i'd just cap it at the average industirial wage. its kinda sick to see people earning more retired than most people earn working. if they want to set up a seperate one and invest thats ok but bog standard pension shoule be indexed linked to the average wage for ALL public servants.

[SPN]

Not at all. I think you don't understand basic economic theory. Public sector employees create more wealth than they are paid. That is a fact.

Oh. My. God.

FT's alter ego? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: