I went a DIT, Kevin Street specifically. So I know that there are other DIT's in Dublin.Originally Posted by HanleyS
I don't know what to say to you. There's no head slapping emoticon.[/quote:zsst79gn][quote:zsst79gn]
It's an internet, stupid!
Which internet do you use?
What you would need is a head banging emoticon. You have not answer my question.
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Kevin Street is only one of dozens of DIT sites. There is only one DIT.I went a DIT, Kevin Street specifically. So I know that there are other DIT's in Dublin.
What you would need is a head banging emoticon. You have not answer my question.I don't know what to say to you. There's no head slapping emoticon.[quote:juvvpe8d]
It's an internet, stupid!
Which internet do you use?
I was taking the p1ss. God knows how you got into DIT. Did they let you graduate?
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Got in to a DIT! I got into a DIT because I had more than enough points. Yes I graduated in Electronics and Computer Engineering. What are you implying?I was taking the p1ss. God knows how you got into DIT. Did they let you graduate?
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That's quite an achievement. Well done. Do you also say "a UCD" and "a Trinity College"? Both of those institutions also have multiple sites.Got in to a DIT! I got into a DIT because I had more than enough points. Yes I graduated in Electronics and Computer Engineering. What are you implying?I was taking the p1ss. God knows how you got into DIT. Did they let you graduate?
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Of course, recent suggestions that the Irish third-level system became debased and worthless during the Ahern era are just more cyptounionist neo-fascist West-Brit slurs on the magnificent Irish nation and all its shining glorious works
There's people getting degrees these days and it amazes me that they've mastered walking and breathing at the same time. It's no wonder there's a bad, bad attitude towards engineers in Ireland if jcdf is any representative.
Je suis un loo-lah
I was an engineer for a large portion of my career and frankly there are no long term career prospects for engineers. At six to eight years in I had pretty much gone as far as I could go, thirty years of repeating the same project beckoned. Realistically one can't be expected to have an exemplary academic record and then accept that your potential will be reached after less than ten years in your career. More importantly the arrogance with which this expectation of an acceptance of a limited career is displayed by business, state sanctioned professions and public sector employees who rely on engineers to actually create the solutions for them is breath taking in the extreme.
After several years trying to understand why my career was not going any further I moved into a business role and have since been promoted repeatedly with substantial pay rises and significant bonuses, at far higher percentage than I ever received as an engineer, for doing much less challenging work. In all honesty I would prefer to be solving really difficult problems, but if I am not going to be financially rewarded for it why should I bother? And this is the crux of the matter, students that are clever enough to be brilliant engineers are looking at the career path and asking themselves "why would I do that?".
Realistically why would a student work on something like an electronic engineering degree, one which is recognised as one of the most difficult to attain, when you could engage in the using little more than your memory and get a law degree or apply some basic logic and attain an economics degree - both of which will place you in professions where you will be paid more than most engineers. If IBEC, multinationals, government et al want good engineers they have to put career paths in place and pay people correctly - it is as simple as that to solve.
Personally I would not recommend even doing science subjects in second level anymore, never mind in third level, to any student who is both career and financially ambitious. Why put in extra work in something like Physics when you can get the same points with easier subjects. Most worryingly Mathematics has been devalued to a level where unless you are naturally good there is no point in taking it at second level. You can get into law, accountancy or similar without higher level maths - again why stress yourself. Do something which requires nothing more than regurgitating facts from memory like history and get your points that way.
Anyway I think you get my point, as an engineer your career path is limited from the beginning by the very people looking for more engineers. The problem is obvious but until the rewards are put in place the people who would make the best engineers will take one look at the career and say "I think not" and will go do something else. I joined the ranks of the non-engineers and I have done very, very well out of donning a suit and becoming a business leader, but I know deep down that the work I am now doing is trivially easy in comparison to what a good engineer does on a daily basis.
I will not be engaging in a debate here, I can already picture where most of the comments will be directed so take this as a once off comment from a relatively frequent p.ie reader.
I think you're wrong about no long term prospects for engineers. Unless you are in a specialised field and very good at what you do, you will probably move into a management role but this is a reflection on Irish industry rather than on engineering as a career. There is not a lot of original work done by Irish industry, so the scope for purely design work is limited. However, an engineering degree is very marketable outside Ireland. Myself, I have had to emigrate and change career paths several times but it was the B.E. which allowed me to do so.
If engineers were wrong as often as economists, would anyone fly aeroplanes?
On my one and only visit to Detroit a few years ago I met a retiree from the personnel department at Ford Motor Company. He told me that this was a major problem at Ford in that the technical people would reach a dead end in their career where they would have to move into the business or be lost to the company. If I didn't drink a case of Miller Lite later that evening I might remember the rest of our conversation. My point is though that this was a recognised problem at Ford and they found it difficult to come up with senior jobs for technical people without moving them away from technical work. The main problem seemed to be that not all technically gifted people were similarly gifted with business skills so they would lose a good tech without gaining a good business person.I think you're wrong about no long term prospects for engineers. Unless you are in a specialised field and very good at what you do, you will probably move into a management role but this is a reflection on Irish industry rather than on engineering as a career. There is not a lot of original work done by Irish industry, so the scope for purely design work is limited. However, an engineering degree is very marketable outside Ireland. Myself, I have had to emigrate and change career paths several times but it was the B.E. which allowed me to do so.
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Interestingly, when Henry Ford 2 turned the company around in the 80's, he did it by replacing a lot of the MBA's with engineers from Europe who knew how to build fuel efficient cars.
The problem of how to reward technical people is a major problem for companies. I was in a situation where I could only be given a rise if I was promoted and there were no vacancies. The result was that I left but a few months later when things got busy, the job was filled by someone with less experience but paid the market rate which was higher than what I would have stayed for. I was told that Bechtel get around the problem by giving people a grade. This means that a very good welding engineer could report to a site manager who earned less money instead of taking an expert in his field and turning him into an indifferent manager.
If engineers were wrong as often as economists, would anyone fly aeroplanes?
UCD and Trinity are Colleges of excellence. Therefore they warrant the definite article. DIT is just an institute and gets the indefinite.
I mastered walking and breathing some time ago, pal!Of course, recent suggestions that the Irish third-level system became debased and worthless during the Ahern era are just more cyptounionist neo-fascist West-Brit slurs on the magnificent Irish nation and all its shining glorious works
There's people getting degrees these days and it amazes me that they've mastered walking and breathing at the same time. It's no wonder there's a bad, bad attitude towards engineers in Ireland if jcdf is any representative.
If this is your best attempt to insult me, I regret to inform you that you've failed. :mrgreen:
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