Employment in the Public Sector was 368,300 (cso figures)

[jetttxyz]

Could anyone shed some light my way, please?

How many people are employed in FAS....and its myriad of agencies?

I'll start a separate thread if/when I get an answer.

[the impossibilist]

The only independent ones that do try to compete are put out of business (Circle Line Buses) or attempted to put out of business (Swords Express) using taxpayers money.

How au fait are you with this situation ?

There is an interesting thread on this very issue over at thepropertypin.ie - I hope Calina over there will forgive me for transplanting his post en masse - I don't know how to link these pages. It's longish, but an excellent post, I think.

Calina wrote -

[i]I'd just like to comment on this. There are major, major problems relating to the issue of the provision of bus services in the Dublin area and they are not actually necessarily the fault of Dublin Bus, but of the Department of Transport. Effectively, teh DoT has been handing DB money to expand their fleet and blocking them from expanding their routes offering. The DoT is also quite slow in resolving licence applications leading to the insanity that was the 41X not being allowed to use the Dublin Port Tunnel despite the fact that buses licensed for more than 25 passengers are entitled to use it toll free. To get that sorted out took a monumental amount of political lobbying on the part of representatives in Swords. It's worth noting that the Swords Express does not serve the same number of people as served by the 41X routes, for example.

In other words, the problem lies not necessarily with the bus companies but with the regulation of same. I am not expert in the area, but I believe the relevant legislation dates from 1932 and much of the view of the DoT in the area appears to be linked to a horrible fear of the competition authorities in Brussels. I have to moderate discussions on the subject of this over on boards.ie. There is a more than adequate amount of information and discussion on this subject there.

Competition only works if it is competition; that means private monopolies are not likely to be any better than a state monopoly and at least state monopolies are required to provide some socially required routings that the private companies will eschew if they can't make money, ergo, Circle Line. - my emphasis here (the imposs.)

My view is that public transport in Ireland is not so much seen as a service for the public transport users, but the public transport providers. If the DoT were doing their job properly, there might be a replacement for the defunct Aerdart service, for example as opposed to the crazy situation whereby it went out of business and the DoT couldn't licence a replacement because the company who ran the service still held the exclusive licence.

either you go out and do what every other efficient city in Europe does which is provide a state monopoly with the resources and support and above all else, regulatory framework to provide a decent local transport solution or you try some halfassed politically and ideologically driven rubbish which is what we and the UK have and get it largely wrong. The RATP and STIB do super jobs in Paris and Brussels, they integrate pretty well with longhaul bus and rail which can pick up in the metropolitan areas and in Brussels at least, your monthly transport card will cover you for those routes within the city area provided by the national rail and bus services (as opposed to local).

For now, we have nothing much of note apart from a bus service which is somehow surviving despite monumental negligence and abuse on the partof its political masters and a rail company that was underfunded for 50 years and which is just about getting up to scratch on the long haul front now. And we have a chopped up regulatory system which is half assed private and half public and it seems like instead of looking at what the country needs, they fight against each other.

I'd also add that the tendency in Ireland to pennywise and poundfoolish is probably a direct cause of the OP. Compared to Germany and France, public transport here should be a cinch, like a model railway really. The truth is it is not.





I think we get good service in Education - On what basis do you say so ? I recently had extended experience to the contrary, with post-LC guys on an apprenticeship course. Shocking lack of basic maths. Really scandalous.

and to a large degree in Health. - With respect, you would say that.

I think the Garda Siochana are good value for money as are the Prison Services. - Again, I'd be interested in how you come to that conclusion.

I think Dail Eirean could be halved and the Senate abolished or reduced considerably. - Playing to the galleries, but I don't disagree.

[Furze]

Statistics and lies ?

The same Central Statistics Office (CSO) figures reveal that Dáil Éireann TDs are on
€ 467.89 per wk. Is this value for money or what !

“
Others in the Public Sector - Average Weekly Earnings € 467.89
Includes persons not elsewhere classified i.e. Dáil Éireann TDs, Garda students and CSO temporary field staff. In March 2008 there were 166 Dáil TDs, 1,100 Garda students and approximately 20 CSO temporary field staff. This category was previously included under the Civil Service sub-sector but they are now included as a sub-sector on their own.”

[hiker]

The only independent ones that do try to compete are put out of business (Circle Line Buses) or attempted to put out of business (Swords Express) using taxpayers money.

How au fait are you with this situation ? .

About as much as I have read in the national papers. The article underneath is interesting but I disagree with the ascertion that tendering out route to public tender is private monopoly. Tenders can be put out every few years to keep companies on their toes.

There is an interesting thread on this very issue over at thepropertypin.ie - I hope Calina over there will forgive me for transplanting his post en masse - I don't know how to link these pages. It's longish, but an excellent post, I think.

Calina wrote -

[size=7][i]I'd just like to comment on this. There are major, major problems relating to the issue of the provision of bus services in the Dublin area and they are not actually necessarily the fault of Dublin Bus, but of the Department of Transport. Effectively, teh DoT has been handing DB money to expand their fleet and blocking them from expanding their routes offering. The DoT is also quite slow in resolving licence applications leading to the insanity that was the 41X not being allowed to use the Dublin Port Tunnel despite the fact that buses licensed for more than 25 passengers are entitled to use it toll free. To get that sorted out took a monumental amount of political lobbying on the part of representatives in Swords. It's worth noting that the Swords Express does not serve the same number of people as served by the 41X routes, for example.

In other words, the problem lies not necessarily with the bus companies but with the regulation of same. I am not expert in the area, but I believe the relevant legislation dates from 1932 and much of the view of the DoT in the area appears to be linked to a horrible fear of the competition authorities in Brussels. I have to moderate discussions on the subject of this over on boards.ie. There is a more than adequate amount of information and discussion on this subject there.

Competition only works if it is competition; that means private monopolies are not likely to be any better than a state monopoly and at least state monopolies are required to provide some socially required routings that the private companies will eschew if they can't make money, ergo, Circle Line. - my emphasis here (the imposs.)

My view is that public transport in Ireland is not so much seen as a service for the public transport users, but the public transport providers. If the DoT were doing their job properly, there might be a replacement for the defunct Aerdart service, for example as opposed to the crazy situation whereby it went out of business and the DoT couldn't licence a replacement because the company who ran the service still held the exclusive licence.

either you go out and do what every other efficient city in Europe does which is provide a state monopoly with the resources and support and above all else, regulatory framework to provide a decent local transport solution or you try some halfassed politically and ideologically driven rubbish which is what we and the UK have and get it largely wrong. The RATP and STIB do super jobs in Paris and Brussels, they integrate pretty well with longhaul bus and rail which can pick up in the metropolitan areas and in Brussels at least, your monthly transport card will cover you for those routes within the city area provided by the national rail and bus services (as opposed to local).

For now, we have nothing much of note apart from a bus service which is somehow surviving despite monumental negligence and abuse on the partof its political masters and a rail company that was underfunded for 50 years and which is just about getting up to scratch on the long haul front now. And we have a chopped up regulatory system which is half assed private and half public and it seems like instead of looking at what the country needs, they fight against each other.

I'd also add that the tendency in Ireland to pennywise and poundfoolish is probably a direct cause of the OP. Compared to Germany and France, public transport here should be a cinch, like a model railway really. The truth is it is not.[/size]

.

I think we get good service in Education

- On what basis do you say so ? I recently had extended experience to the contrary, with post-LC guys on an apprenticeship course. Shocking lack of basic maths. Really scandalous..

Thats unfortunate to hear. I have always beleived that our scholls and collages give good value for money. I once contemplated sending my lads to a private school in Dublin north. At €3500 per child per year, I figured that what i paid in tax was fair value for the education they were and are receiving at this time.

and to a large degree in Health. - With respect, you would say that..

I think the Garda Siochana are good value for money as are the Prison Services.

- Again, I'd be interested in how you come to that conclusion..

The alternative (private policing?) is not an option but what what I can glean from various studies and reports An Garda seem to be reasonably good at the service they provide. Its not an easy job these days.

[
I think Dail Eirean could be halved and the Senate abolished or reduced considerably. - Playing to the galleries, but I don't disagree.

Playing to gallaries it may be but to be honest I would'nt stop there. I would attampt to amalgamate some of the smaller County Councils into single units because I beleive there is a lot of duplication taking place in some very small administrative areas.